# Who is the more iconic SciFi character? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** actor-characters\ **Created:** [August 25, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356 "2022-08-25T21:44:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/61 "2022-08-28T21:14:16Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > For people 40+ years old, I’d agree pretty much everyone would recognize Spock. If they know Spock (and I don’t think everyone would, we’re a pretty skewed group here on the Dope) then they would certainly know Vader. The visual appeal of Vader is pretty much unmatched. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@salinqmind1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind1)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/62 "2022-08-29T01:13:28Z")
Doesn’t anyone here think, as I do, Darth Vader is tall and ugly and has a horrible breathing sound, but in the whole Star Wars series, he was just a big tall ugly horrible breather villain. I was never chilled or scared, and when whatsisname got burned up and transformed into D.V., there was no emotion or sadness or anything. (being that obnoxious asshole kid didn’t help.) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/63 "2022-08-29T02:56:31Z")
I saw the thread title, and tried to think of the most iconic character before clicking and seeing what the poll options were. The first I thought of was James Kirk, and he was the first choice in the poll, so he got my vote. > [@silenus](#): > > It’s Banky’s expression that really sells it here. I’ve only seen _Chasing Amy_ once, but I’ve read the script. I would swear that Hooper gives a list of black comic characters, including “Black Cat” (someone in the audience yells "she’s white’); did that not make it into the final cut of the film. > [@Chronos](#): > > Darth Vader is the greatest villain in the history of film. That puts him well ahead of anyone else on the list. Sci-fi has a long tradition of creating great villains, and once they become popular they become heroes. HAL, Vader, the T. Rex in _Jurassic Park_, and more if I thought about it. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/64 "2022-08-29T16:15:57Z")
I’ve watched and enjoyed plenty of Star Trek in my day (although I was more of Next Gen fan than the original series, just because of my generation). But anyone who thinks that any ST character is more _iconic_ than Darth Vader is absolutely smoking crack. Vader is so familiar, and so instantly recognizable. He’s on the very very short list of most iconic fictional characters ever created, up there with Mickey Mouse. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/65 "2022-08-29T16:28:05Z")
For me, it was Darth Vader or Spock. I voted Vader. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/66 "2022-08-29T16:38:02Z")
> [@salinqmind1](#): > > Doesn’t anyone here think, as I do, Darth Vader is tall and ugly and has a horrible breathing sound, but in the whole Star Wars series, he was just a big tall ugly horrible breather villain. I was never chilled or scared, and when whatsisname got burned up and transformed into D.V., there was no emotion or sadness or anything. (being that obnoxious asshole kid didn’t help.) Earlier I said Star Wars is good at iconic imagery, which is very true. What it is less good at, is making those iconic images do things. In fact, the more often you see an iconic character doing things in Star Wars, the less interesting they become. Darth Vader looks incredible, but what he mostly does is bully his subordinates and engage in not very compelling lightsaber duels that don’t make him seem particularly powerful. Boba Fett looks great, but likewise the more we see from him the more we find that “look” is all he’s got. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/67 "2022-08-29T16:48:53Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > For people 40+ years old, I’d agree pretty much everyone would recognize Spock. But among my kids’ friend groups (high school age), maybe half would recognize him. And all of them know Darth Vader. These days, the problem is compounded by the question, “Okay, _which_ Spock do you recognize?” There was TOS Spock, in his prime, and then later, Old Man Spock. Then there was the Spock from the Abrams’ reboot movies, played by a different person, and now, a third Spock in the ST:Disco and ST:SNW series. A lot of people in the last decade or two could very easily have been introduced to Spock from some source other than TOS, and if you showed them Nimoy-as-Spock, with no context, they might just identify him as Generic Vulcan. There’s no way that happens with Vader. Even with two different actors having played him now, the character is indistinguishable (visually, at least) across all the movies and TV shows. Even in the animated ones, he’s still unmistakably Vader. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/68 "2022-08-29T16:55:58Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’ve only seen _Chasing Amy_ once, but I’ve read the script. I would swear that Hooper gives a list of black comic characters, including “Black Cat” (someone in the audience yells "she’s white’); did that not make it into the final cut of the film. You are correct. It occurs at the start of Hooper’s monologue, right before “Now the hero of my book…” ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/69 "2022-08-29T17:08:17Z")
That’s missing from the clip that you posted, though. I wasn’t sure if I misremembered the movie, or if someone took it out before posting that to youtube. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/70 "2022-08-29T17:09:52Z")
Kevin edited it out of the release version. Probably because the audience reaction would undercut the impact of Balky and Holden sniping at him. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/71 "2022-08-29T22:21:24Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Sci-fi has a long tradition of creating great villains, and once they become popular they become heroes. HAL, Vader, the T. Rex in _Jurassic Park_, and more if I thought about it. The tradition definitely exists in science fiction (and probably in other genres): See also Godzilla and the Terminator. But I don’t think I would count either Vader or the T. rex. The T. rex had its heroic moment in the same movie it made its debut in, so it couldn’t have been “once it became popular”, and the raptors were always the main threat in Jurassic Park. If anything, the raptors themselves are a better example, becoming heroic (under Chris Pratt’s leadership) in Jurassic World. And Vader was a villain who was eventually redeemed in the end, but he never really had a chance to go from “redeemed villain” all the way to “hero”. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/72 "2022-08-29T22:33:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And Vader was a villain who was eventually redeemed in the end, but he never really had a chance to go from “redeemed villain” all the way to “hero”. Nor should he have had the chance. Kill billions of people and one defenestration gets you clean with the Force? So clean it comes with Force-Ghost powers? Pah! Iconic villain he is, and shall remain. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/73 "2022-08-29T22:53:32Z")
Billions? Low thousands, tops. Including a class room full of children, so, really, your larger point stands. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/74 "2022-08-29T22:58:22Z")
Also, point of order, but defenestration requires a window. Palpatine got dropped down a pit. No windows involved. (But, memes to the contrary, [there were guard rails](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/49/04/58/490458a4201733aad612c8bf500d1258.png)!) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/75 "2022-08-29T23:07:04Z")
Aren’t we forgetting his part in the destruction of Alderaan? Sure, he didn’t pull the Firing Lever (Damn you, Tenn Graneet!) but he was just as culpable as Tarkin. Also, I don’t know the term for “tossing someone down a Death Star shaft.” ETQ: How did gravity work in that shaft anyway? Shouldn’t the Emp have bounced between floors or something? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/76 "2022-08-29T23:18:23Z")
Here’s what I want to know. [Where the fuck did the two Imperial Guards go?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V2YYKOAXcc) They’re standing on either side of the elevator when Luke shows up with Vader. The Emperor says, “Leave us,” but the guards don’t get in the elevator - they walk around behind the big cylinder that holds the elevator. Where did they go from there? The door to the elevator is on the other side of the cylinder. Were they standing back there for the whole fight? Is there a special servant’s entrance to the elevator back there? Did they sneak around to the front and get in when the camera was pointed the other way? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/77 "2022-08-29T23:36:47Z")
What? Servants using Imperial Transport? Never. There was a servant’s door on the other side of the elevator, leading to a ladder down 17 floors to the Guard dorm. They were probably 3/4 of the way down when Palpy went boom like a [Nakatomi elevator](https://youtu.be/s2WFXpO0y8I?t=65). ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/78 "2022-08-30T00:07:48Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > ETQ: How did gravity work in that shaft anyway? Shouldn’t the Emp have bounced between floors or something? I have long maintained that gravity on the Death Star should have been directed toward the center; the multiple levels would have been concentric spheres. Views of the landing bay clearly show that isn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/79 "2022-08-30T00:20:31Z")
Eh, there’s no reason gravity would work differently in the Death Star than on all the smaller ships. Gravity points down, and if that seems tautological, then you’re overthinking. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356/80 "2022-08-30T00:31:06Z")
I would nominate Flash Gordon, though maybe younger folks would be unfamiliar with him. Brian [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-more-iconic-scifi-character/970356.md?page=5)