# Who is the most incompetent character in Tolkien's legendarium? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161 "2011-03-27T17:07:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Carl\_Corey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/181 "2011-04-01T21:37:21Z")
I have to agree that it was Eowyn who struck the killing blow. Merry’s blow hit the Witch-king in the leg, causing him to stumble forward, and left him open to Elwyn’s blow. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/182 "2011-04-01T21:39:23Z")
I think it was a double-team. Merry’s blow broke the spell, but wasn’t fatal in itself. But Eowyn’s, now enabled, was. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/183 "2011-04-01T21:41:58Z")
> [@Carl\_Corey](#): > > I have to agree that it was Eowyn who struck the killing blow. Merry’s blow hit the Witch-king in the leg, causing him to stumble forward, and left him open to Elwyn’s blow. No, Merry’s blow undid the necromantic enchantments shielding the Witch-King from harm, and also injured him (and also destroyed Merry’s sword). Neither strike would have sufficed alone; nor would have changing the order sufficied. Though I don’t suppose it mattered who had the barrow-sword. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/184 "2011-04-01T21:43:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Or possibly wight. 😃 Stop making a Spectre of yourself. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/185 "2011-04-01T21:51:36Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I just don’t see that interpretation in the text. Merry’s blade broke the spell that held the Witch-king together, killing him. Not Eowyn’s sword-thrust. All that did was to destroy her sword, and seriously numb her sword-arm. One thing that I never see acknowledged in the debate over whether or not Merry should get a sole-kill credit for the Witchking is that the text is not the word of God or anything. It is narrative from the \*Red Book of Westmarch \*put in by Frodo, who really did not know that much about the provenance of the blade in question. My take on it is that the “No other blade…” is just color commentary, not to be taken too seriously. I think it is significant that basically none of the internal dialog related in \*Lord of the Rings \*comes from any immortal folk, or even Aragorn–I believe that the only viewpoint characters are the Hobbits and Gimli. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/186 "2011-04-01T22:57:05Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Stop making a Spectre of yourself. :rolleyes: These puns are a wraith of effort. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/187 "2011-04-01T23:05:14Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > One thing that I never see acknowledged in the debate over whether or not Merry should get a sole-kill credit for the Witchking is that the text is not the word of God or anything. It is narrative from the \*Red Book of Westmarch \*put in by Frodo, who really did not know that much about the provenance of the blade in question. My take on it is that the “No other blade…” is just color commentary, not to be taken too seriously. I’ll agree that that remark was color commentary, but I don’t think it came from Frodo; it came from a later scribe of Gondor. Doubtless they wished to ascribe at least some credit to the heirs of Numenor for the WK’s defeat. ---
**Author:** ![bahimes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@bahimes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bahimes)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/188 "2011-04-02T05:46:17Z")
retiring from thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/189 "2011-04-02T16:32:46Z")
Oooooh, I change my answer. Treebeard had the biggest “fart at a funeral” moment. Ah, the patience of the Ents! They miss not a detail! They were bringing trees up to Isengard, and not a squirrel could move without Fangorn knowing! The Watchwood, they call it. For seven times the number of years that Saruman tormented the Ents would they watch him in Orthanc, with unending vigilance! A month later: “So, uh, Treebeard, where’s Saruman?” “We let him go, brah.” “You’re shitting me.” “Nope. Seemed like the thing to do.” “You suck, Treebeard.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/190 "2011-04-02T19:12:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I think it is significant that basically none of the internal dialog related in Lord of the Rings comes from any immortal folk, or even Aragorn–I believe that the only viewpoint characters are the Hobbits and Gimli. And one fox in the Shire. Still, though, the viewpoint characters had plenty of time to consult with the Wise and ask about details of such things. IIRC, it was months between the destruction of the Ring and the royal wedding, during which time Frodo would have had nothing better to do than to research his book (with access to all the scribes and scholars of Gondor). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/191 "2011-04-03T16:17:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And one fox in the Shire. > > Still, though, the viewpoint characters had plenty of time to consult with the Wise and ask about details of such things. IIRC, it was months between the destruction of the Ring and the royal wedding, during which time Frodo would have had nothing better to do than to research his book (with access to all the scribes and scholars of Gondor). Well, there’d be some healing involved there too. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/192 "2011-04-04T03:31:44Z")
Eru knows he needed it. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/193 "2011-04-04T04:26:27Z")
> [@Carl\_Corey](#): > > I have to agree that it was Eowyn who struck the killing blow. Merry’s blow hit the Witch-king in the leg, causing him to stumble forward, and left him open to Elwyn’s blow. Regardless, they are both in the same ‘fellowship’, and hence split the XP. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/194 "2011-04-04T13:22:23Z")
Eowyn actually wasn’t a membership of the Fellowship of the Ring, as it was first formed by Elrond and set forth from Rivendell. She was certainly a later key ally, though. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/195 "2011-04-04T13:31:13Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Eowyn actually wasn’t a membership of the Fellowship of the Ring, as it was first formed by Elrond and set forth from Rivendell. She was certainly a later key ally, though. That there was a LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online) joke, I’m pretty sure…I hope the whoosh didn’t muss anything up. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/196 "2011-04-04T15:14:32Z")
> [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](#): > > Regardless, they are both in the same ‘fellowship’, and hence split the XP. Yeah but they didn’t get one single lousy gold piece off him. What kind of campaign is this?? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/197 "2011-04-04T19:58:30Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > That there was a LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online) joke, I’m pretty sure…I hope the whoosh didn’t muss anything up. It’s all good! ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/198 "2011-04-05T14:12:06Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Yeah but they didn’t get one single lousy gold piece off him. What kind of campaign is this?? They should have at least been able to get that mace. I’d trade Merry’s +1 dagger and a mundane sword and shield for an at least +3 mace (well, morningstar in the movie - sorry, **Skald** ) any day. That should be worth some serious gold. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/199 "2011-04-05T14:29:03Z")
Required link to [DM of the Rings](http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612), a webcomic that recasts the movies as an ongoing D&D type campaign. Complaints about the lack of loot are common. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161/200 "2011-04-05T15:17:16Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Required link to [DM of the Rings](http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612), a webcomic that recasts the movies as an ongoing D&D type campaign. Complaints about the lack of loot are common. “These are the poorest orcs I’ve ever seen in my twenty years of gaming. Like an army of beggars”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-most-incompetent-character-in-tolkiens-legendarium/576161.md?page=11)