# Who is the oldest probably real person we know the name of? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 2, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057 "2010-03-02T23:48:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/21 "2010-03-03T21:32:49Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > I guess the answer to both this question and the OPs would be the late Thag Simmons. We still know of him from the Thagomizer. Poor Thag. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/22 "2010-03-04T01:33:01Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:21, topic:531057”] We still know of him from the Thagomizer. Poor Thag. [/QUOTE] If it’s the same Thag as gave his name to the Thagomizer, yoou should let the guys at the Creation Science Museum know! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/23 "2010-03-04T11:15:08Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Egyptian King Narmer (32nd century BC)? > > [Narmer - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narmer) Presumably Narmer’s [mum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shesh_I) (or should that be mummy?) was older than him. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/24 "2010-03-04T12:52:08Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Presumably Narmer’s [mum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shesh_I) (or should that be mummy?) was older than him. Well, supposedly Sekhem Ka is predecessor to Narmer and has a definate Serekh (royal name carved on several artifacts). > **[Ka (pharaoh)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka_(Pharaoh))** > > Ka, also (alternatively) Sekhen, was a Predynastic pharaoh of Upper Egypt belonging to Dynasty 0. He may have reigned c. 3150 BC. The length of his reign is unknown. > The correct reading of Ka's name remains uncertain. There are vessel inscriptions which show a serekh with a typical Ka-symbol, both written upright correctly, but there are also inscriptions presenting an upright serekh with an upside-down Ka-symbol inside. The second form of that writing indicates a reading as Sekhen (meaning "to... So while Scorpion I and Narmer may be the same, for Sekhem Ka "He is the earliest known Egyptian king with a serekh, inscribed on a number of artefacts " ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/25 "2010-03-04T13:43:14Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > “I, Narvi, made these signs.” I see what you did there. 😉 But I think it goes, “I, Narvi, made them\*. Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs.” \*-Them being the actual doors, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/26 "2010-03-04T14:12:15Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Presumably Narmer’s [mum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shesh_I) (or should that be mummy?) was older than him. Certainly, but not as well attested in terms of archaeological evidence; it depends on where you draw the line at being proven to exist as opposed to mythological. I think there are several predecessor Egyptian kings even more ancient whose names are known from king-lists and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/27 "2010-03-04T14:15:43Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Well, supposedly Sekhem Ka is predecessor to Narmer and has a definate Serekh (royal name carved on several artifacts). > > [Ka (pharaoh) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka_(Pharaoh)) > > So while Scorpion I and Narmer may be the same, for Sekhem Ka "He is the earliest known Egyptian king with a serekh, inscribed on a number of artefacts " This one is a pretty good candadate for oldest of all. His immediate predecessor may also be considered, but as it says, he’s not as well attested. > **[Iry-Hor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iry-Hor)** > > Iry-Hor (or Ro; fl. c. 3170 BC) was a predynastic king of Upper Egypt during the 32nd century BC. Excavations at Abydos in the 1980s and 1990s and the discovery in 2012 of an inscription of Iry-Hor in Sinai confirmed his existence. Iry-Hor is the earliest ruler of Egypt known by name and is sometimes cited as the earliest-living historical person known by name. > Iry-Hor's name is written with the Horus falcon hieroglyph (Gardiner sign G5) above a mouth hieroglyph (Gardiner D21). While the modern ... ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/28 "2010-03-04T14:50:46Z")
From the tone of the responses I gather the thread is about the person most distant from present day whose name we can be sure of. When I first saw the title I was sure it had to do with [Oldest people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people) or [List of the verified oldest people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_verified_oldest_people) or even [The Oldest Human Beings](http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/oldest.html) I just thought the links might be amusing to anyone not familiar with them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/29 "2010-03-04T15:03:44Z")
Slight hijack, but - what about flipping the question around a bit? Do we think there’s anyone alive now whose name and needs will be remembered three thousand years hence? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/30 "2010-03-04T15:09:05Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Do we think there’s anyone alive now whose name and needs will be remembered three thousand years hence? I nominate a girl I dated back in high school. She was really needy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/31 "2010-03-04T16:29:38Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I nominate a girl I dated back in high school. She was really needy. 😃 Damnit! _Deeds!_ Not needs! _Deeds!_ I can type, honest. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/32 "2010-03-04T16:48:20Z")
Barring some kind of tremendous global catastrophe, I think there will probably be lots of archival records surviving from now to three thousand years hence, so my answer would be “yes, probably billions or at least millions”. If what you’re asking is whether there’s any contemporary individual whose name will be **popularly known** at that time, I’m sure there are several, but I can’t really guess who they are. ---
**Author:** ![moldybread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@moldybread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moldybread)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/33 "2010-03-05T20:39:53Z")
Slightly relevant question. Were any cave drawings ever discovered depicting human forms? I only recall pictures of animals. Maybe something like Glug wuz here! 12,000 bc ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/34 "2010-03-05T20:49:40Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Barring some kind of tremendous global catastrophe In my experience, _everyone_ who asks that is assuming, implicitly or explicitly, that something is going to happen to destroy most recorded history. Why, I have no idea: It made no sense during the Cold War and it makes even less sense now. It seems obvious enough that anything that destroys civilization at this point would be (have to be!) strong enough to destroy not only all human life, but most chordate life on this planet. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/35 "2010-03-05T21:03:33Z")
I found this interesting - Serekh with king Narmer’s name on it, found in Israel: [http://www.anthro.ucsd.edu/~tlevy/Archaeology\_in\_the\_Levant/Nahal\_Tillah\_Publications.html](http://www.anthro.ucsd.edu/~tlevy/Archaeology_in_the_Levant/Nahal_Tillah_Publications.html) > [@](#): > > The New Narmer Serekh for the Halif Terrace > > From the Chalcolithic through the beginning of the Early Bronze Age, in southern Canaan there is evidence for a slow but steady increase in trade and exchange with Egypt (e.g., Joffee 1993; Stager 1992). This process crystallizes in the late EB I with evidence of royal trade and exchange based mostly on the presence of Egyptian style clay cylinder seal impressions (bullae) and incised serekh signs. To date there are ca. 18 incised serekh-signs which have been found in Israel, only three of which could be positively identified with Narmer (cf. Amiran 1974; Brandl 1992:447; van den Brink, in press, in prep). In fact, two of the ìnamelessî or anonymous serekhs come from the Halif Terrace (cf. Gophna 1972; Seger et al 1990:5, fig. 4; van den Brink, in prep; ). Thus, the serekh present here is not a surprise per se . However, a combination of factors make the Silo Site serekh of special interest. Firstly, most of the known serekhs from Israel are either in too fragmentary a state of preservation or contain anonymous signs. The Silo Site example can be unambiguously attributed to a known king - Horus Narmer. Secondly, unlike most of the other serekh-signs, the sample presented here comes from a stratigraphically controlled context. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/36 "2010-03-08T10:47:57Z")
I can’t give you Joe the Date Trader, but the earliest non-royal person is probably Imhotep, builder of the first Egyptian pyramid. Per his Wikipedia entry he was: > [@](#): > > Chancellor of the King of Egypt, Doctor, First in line after the King of Upper Egypt, Administrator of the Great Palace, Hereditary nobleman, High Priest of Heliopolis, Builder, Chief Carpenter, Chief Sculptor and Maker of Vases in Chief. Which certainly sheds light on Bronze Age social structure, to say the least. One almost gets the impression that, in 2650 BC, the Egyptians were afraid they might lose the ability to hammer nails and make pots, if this knowledge wasn’t carefully preserved and the practitioners of these crafts duly respected. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/37 "2010-03-08T12:12:01Z")
> [@moldybread](#): > > Slightly relevant question. Were any cave drawings ever discovered depicting human forms? > I only recall pictures of animals. > > Maybe something like Glug wuz here! 12,000 bc Hell yes, lots of them. Usually they were shown hunting. [http://coquinadaily.com/daily/imagesdaily/080305/cave%20paintings/a172lascaux1.jpg](http://coquinadaily.com/daily/imagesdaily/080305/cave%20paintings/a172lascaux1.jpg) Also, as mentioned in an earlier post, the artist woujld often sign his work with a handprint. ---
**Author:** ![moldybread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@moldybread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moldybread)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/38 "2010-03-08T16:11:37Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Hell yes, lots of them. Usually they were shown hunting. > [http://coquinadaily.com/daily/imagesdaily/080305/cave%20paintings/a172lascaux1.jpg](http://coquinadaily.com/daily/imagesdaily/080305/cave%20paintings/a172lascaux1.jpg) > > Also, as mentioned in an earlier post, the artist woujld often sign his work with a handprint. Thank you. Truly fascinating! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/39 "2010-03-08T18:20:08Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Slight hijack, but - what about flipping the question around a bit? > > Do we think there’s anyone alive now whose name and needs will be remembered three thousand years hence? I assume you mean somewhat popularly known and not known just to historians or say scientists working in some field. Given that Aristotle is widely known now even though much of his science is now considered wrong, I’d say that Einstein will probably be known in 3000 years. And yes I know Aristotle lived less than 2500 years ago not 3000 and that Einstein is dead. I suspect some currently living scientist will probably be known, but no name stands out so much right now as his. Then, of course, somebody may well have an award, or more likely I think, a unit of measure named after them. Names like Watt, Ampere, Faraday, etc. may well last even if people popularly have no idea whom they honor. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057/40 "2010-03-08T18:26:11Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > In my experience, _everyone_ who asks that is assuming, implicitly or explicitly, that something is going to happen to destroy most recorded history. Why, I have no idea: It made no sense during the Cold War and it makes even less sense now. It seems obvious enough that anything that destroys civilization at this point would be (have to be!) strong enough to destroy not only all human life, but most chordate life on this planet. I wasn’t assuming that, actually. But records get lost or destroyed for all sorts of non-major-disaster reasons. Books take up space that need to be used for new books, so they get discarded. Files get backed up in old formats, and no one bothers converting them to modern media while it can still be done cheaply, so those records become inaccessible. Authoritarian states deliberately purge records. And so on and so on - none of it makes a huge dent all at once, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that even in the best-case scenario, humanity’s memory of the 21st century in three thousand years will be decidedly spotty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-oldest-probably-real-person-we-know-the-name-of/531057.md?page=3)