# Who is the pretender to the United States' throne? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310 "2010-09-01T21:27:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/1 "2010-09-01T21:27:21Z")
Assuming that Washington became King George I of the U.S., who would be our current monarch? It is made more complicated by the fact that George Washington had no biological children so using the standard (or tradition) of monarchy succession in Britain at the time, would the heir (Prince of Florida?) be his eldest adopted stepson (John Parke Custis), his closest living relative (but some were half-siblings) or his favored blood relative (his nephew Bushrod Washington)? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/2 "2010-09-01T21:31:42Z")
I don’t think adopted stepsons count in the British primogeniture system. If he had a “full” brother, then that brother’s son would supersede any half-sibling. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/3 "2010-09-01T21:32:18Z")
[Paul Emery Washington](http://www.newsweek.com/2008/10/07/the-man-who-would-be-king.html), unless he has died since 2008. Apparently he would have been one of the [seven percenters](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357644). ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/4 "2010-09-01T21:43:12Z")
Since George Washington died without descendants, presumably the throne would have gone to Vice-President John Adams, who had plenty of descendants, including another president. The current monarch might be a child or grandchild of [Charles Francis Adams IV](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Francis_Adams_IV), who died in 1999. Of course, the other way of looking at would be that the pretender is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, of the United Kingdom and various other realms and territories. I’m sure she’d be happy to step into the job if you really needed her. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/5 "2010-09-01T21:45:08Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Since George Washington died without descendants, presumably the throne would have gone to Vice-President John Adams, who had plenty of descendants, including another president. The current monarch might be a child or grandchild of [Charles Francis Adams IV](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Francis_Adams_IV), who died in 1999. What in the hell does a king need a Vice President for? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/6 "2010-09-01T21:49:12Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > What in the hell does a king need a Vice President for? To look after his vices, of course! ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/7 "2010-09-01T22:36:52Z")
A descendant of Alexander Hamilton might fit the bill. If Washington took the US throne he might have adopted Hamilton or at least named him the successor. ---
**Author:** ![Kilmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/8 "2010-09-01T23:22:50Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > A descendant of Alexander Hamilton might fit the bill. If Washington took the US throne he might have adopted Hamilton or at least named him the successor. Hamilton would never be king. He’d always be the guy in the dark cloak whispering in the King’s ear. Washington was just smart enough to give him a job title. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/9 "2010-09-02T06:30:12Z")
How about [Abigail Kinoiki Kekaulike Kawānanakoa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abigail_Kinoiki_Kekaulike_Kaw%C4%81nanakoa)? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/10 "2010-09-02T17:06:02Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Since George Washington died without descendants, presumably the throne would have gone to Vice-President John Adams, who had plenty of descendants, including another president. Suppose instead of a monarch, Washington had been named President-for-Life, like a Supreme Court appointment. And suppose when the current President died, whoever was historically President at the time was appointed as the new President-for-Life. George Washington - April 30, 1789 to December 14, 1799 John Adams - December 15, 1799 to July 4, 1826 John Quincy Adams - July 5, 1826 to February 23, 1848 James Polk - February 24, 1848 to June 15, 1849 Zachary Taylor - June 16, 1849 to July 9, 1850 Millard Fillmore - July 10, 1850 to March 8, 1874 Ulysses Grant - March 9, 1874 to July 23, 1885 Grover Cleveland - July 24, 1885 to June 24, 1908 Theodore Roosevelt - June 25, 1908 to January 6, 1919 Woodrow Wilson - January 7, 1919 to February 3, 1924 Calvin Coolidge - February 4, 1924 to January 5, 1933 Herbert Hoover - January 6, 1933 to October 20, 1964 Lyndon Johnson - October 21, 1964 to January 22, 1973 Richard Nixon - January 23, 1973 to April 22, 1994 Bill Clinton - April 23, 1994 to the present ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/11 "2010-09-02T17:13:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > … > > Millard Fillmore - July 10, 1850 to March 8, 1874 > … > > Theodore Roosevelt - June 25, 1908 to January 6, 1919 > … > > Herbert Hoover - January 6, 1933 to October 20, 1964 > … So Fillmore dealing with the secession of the southern states – good luck with that one! I do like the idea of Teddy Roosevelt being in charge during WW1, but Hoover dealing with the Depression and then with WW2? I suspect the US would still be in the Depression, and the Germans and Japanese would have won WW2. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/12 "2010-09-03T08:30:15Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > So Fillmore dealing with the secession of the southern states – good luck with that one! They wouldn’t have seceded if Fillmore had been president. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/13 "2010-09-03T08:54:25Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > They wouldn’t have seceded if Fillmore had been president. Until Grant came in. I suspect that he would have had better generals in the early war, and Robert E. Lee was already dead, so the Civil War would have been more brief and more decisive for the North (if it did occur). I guess the question would be whether the South would view Grant as a danger to the continued existence of slavery such as to start a war, and how Grant would have done in ending slavery and getting things started on the road towards equality for the races, if at all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/14 "2010-09-03T09:08:44Z")
Does Emperor Norton have any living relatives? [Emperor Norton - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/15 "2010-09-03T09:25:09Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > … George Washington had no biological children so using the standard (or tradition) of monarchy succession in Britain at the time, would the heir (Prince of Florida?) be his eldest adopted stepson (John Parke Custis), his closest living relative … Inheritance rules vary but, unless I am mistaken, only _descendants_ are eligible in most systems. For example, when King William IV died without legitimate heir(\*) and his niece Victoria took the throne, _she didn’t get the throne because she was William’s niece._ She got the throne because she was granddaughter of George III, the recent previous Monarch who _did_ have legitimate heirs. When a dynasty becomes extinct (its founder has no living descendant heirs), it is normal to …, er, _elect_ a new King! (\* William IV did have many descendants, including P.M. David Cameron, but they were illegitimate, mostly via his [actress lover](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothea_Jordan).) ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/16 "2010-09-03T16:43:17Z")
> [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](#): > > Does Emperor Norton have any living relatives? [Emperor Norton - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton) Not, like, [biologically](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Chu). ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/17 "2010-09-03T16:52:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Suppose instead of a monarch, Washington had been named President-for-Life, like a Supreme Court appointment. And suppose when the current President died, whoever was historically President at the time was appointed as the new President-for-Life. > … > > Herbert Hoover - January 6, 1933 to October 20, 1964 > Lyndon Johnson - October 21, 1964 to January 22, 1973 > Richard Nixon - January 23, 1973 to April 22, 1994 > Bill Clinton - April 23, 1994 to the present of course if Dick was convicted that would change to Gerald Ford to Dec. 26, 2006 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/18 "2010-09-03T17:14:30Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > … > > > > Millard Fillmore - July 10, 1850 to March 8, 1874 > > … > > > > Theodore Roosevelt - June 25, 1908 to January 6, 1919 > > … > > > > Herbert Hoover - January 6, 1933 to October 20, 1964 > > … > > So Fillmore dealing with the secession of the southern states – good luck with that one! I do like the idea of Teddy Roosevelt being in charge during WW1, but Hoover dealing with the Depression and then with WW2? I suspect the US would still be in the Depression, and the Germans and Japanese would have won WW2. Konichiwa, mein Freund! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/19 "2010-09-03T18:36:18Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > So Fillmore dealing with the secession of the southern states – good luck with that one! I do like the idea of Teddy Roosevelt being in charge during WW1, but Hoover dealing with the Depression and then with WW2? I suspect the US would still be in the Depression, and the Germans and Japanese would have won WW2. Makes you wonder if Nixon would have gone to Tokyo to meet with Hirohito and signed a detente agreement with Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310/20 "2010-09-03T23:07:26Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > … > > > > Millard Fillmore - July 10, 1850 to March 8, 1874 > > … > > > > Theodore Roosevelt - June 25, 1908 to January 6, 1919 > > … > > > > Herbert Hoover - January 6, 1933 to October 20, 1964 > > … > > So Fillmore dealing with the secession of the southern states – good luck with that one! I do like the idea of Teddy Roosevelt being in charge during WW1, but Hoover dealing with the Depression and then with WW2? I suspect the US would still be in the Depression, and the Germans and Japanese would have won WW2. FDR did a pretty good job of prolonging the depression with his idiotic policies of raising prices and lowering output (see Amity Shlaes “The Forgotten Man”). Of course a lot of the New Deal was continuing Hoover’s policies, which were a lot more activist than people remember today. But at least FDR had Republicans like Eisenhower and MacArthur in charge of the war effort. But ending the depression was low on FDR’s list of priorities, he wanted to remake society. Always wonder what would have happened in 1850 if the South had tried to secede when Winfield Scott was still an effective commander. But whether Fillmore had the uncanny ability of putting opponents in a “heads I win, tails you lose” position like Lincoln did is very doubtful. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-pretender-to-the-united-states-throne/552310.md?page=2)