# Who is the second best ice hockey player of all time? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** hockey-nhl\ **Created:** [December 30, 2024, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351 "2024-12-30T18:15:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351/41 "2025-04-07T18:42:13Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > He was better at hockey than Jordan was at basketball, though we have previously discussed if Gretsky is the best athlete at his individual sport and there are some cricket or rugby players that may surpass him. > > In terms of the big four North American sports, though, I think he is the best. In terms of peer dominance I am inclined to agree. Hockey doesn’t have a commonly agreed upon “put everything together in one number” thing, so comparing Gretzky to defencemen and goalies is hard. Hockey Reference has “point shares” and is convinced Ray Bourque is VERY close to Gretzky in career value, but 1. I don’t understand how they calculate this and 2. Ray was a tremendous player for a long time but this honestly is very hard to believe. Baseball has no one way ahead of everyone else. Babe Ruth once was, but other players have approached him since. Basketball has no one that far ahead; as great as Jordan was (he’s my pick for GOAT) one can make strong arguments for Wilt, Bill Russell, Kareem, and Lebron as at least being _comparable_. Tom Brady has a very strong argument but football is a weird sport when it comes to comparing players at different positions, even more so than baseball or hockey. And it’s not like Brady at any one time led the league in passing yards every year for nine years in a row by stupid margins, with one year being the year he passed for 8500 yards and threw 70 touchdown passes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351/42 "2025-04-07T18:59:45Z")
QBs primarily get ranked according to how many championships they won. Brady’s Adjusted Net Yards Per Attempt (takes into account sacks and Ints) is 7.06, good for 6th all time, but he has the most ringz. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351/43 "2025-04-07T22:24:34Z")
I think championships matter, but that would lead to arguing that Yogi Berra was the greatest baseball player of all time and Henri Richard the greatest hockey player. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351/44 "2025-04-08T00:11:52Z")
Well yeah, but NFL QBs are pretty unique in that pretty much everyone (from sportswriters to fans) put a TON of weight on championships, to the extent that their candidacy almost entirely hinges on how many rings they won. It’s why Tony Romo will likely have a very long wait to get elected, if he ever does (given his poor performance in big games), while a clearly inferior QB in Eli Manning will almost certainly get in before the decade is over. If you have fun with the date setting on the Pro Football Reference page for [Adjusted Net Yards/Attempt](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_adj_net_yds_per_att_career.htm), you can choose certain end dates and see who else got ignored. Kenny Anderson is probably the ur-example from half a century ago. [choose his last year 1986 and he’s 10th] ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351/45 "2025-04-08T14:56:15Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Well yeah, but NFL QBs are pretty unique in that pretty much everyone (from sportswriters to fans) put a TON of weight on championships, to the extent that their candidacy almost entirely hinges on how many rings they won. It’s why Tony Romo will likely have a very long wait to get elected, if he ever does (given his poor performance in big games), while a clearly inferior QB in Eli Manning will almost certainly get in before the decade is over. In fairness, the short NFL season and disproportionately large impact of playoff games is different from most other sports. But you’re right. It’s hard to apply that to hockey though. Wayne Gretzky has four Stanley Cup rings and Henri Richard had 11. No one has ever suggested the Pocket Rocket was greater than The Great One. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351/46 "2025-04-08T15:06:26Z")
Gretzky was the GOAT, and still is the GOAT in hockey. Just like Bird was and still is the GOAT in basketball. They were players who elevated their entire teams and the game, not just scoring machines. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351/47 "2025-04-08T15:54:38Z")
Budweiser Canada sent commemorative cans to the 28 goalies who were never scored on by Ovi despite facing at least one of his shots. Eddie Lack, who gave up 4 goals to him, responded "this is bullshit. If I knew there was beers involved I would’ve tried harder.” > **[Budweiser Canada delivers commemorative beer cans to the 28 goaltenders who...](https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2025/04/07/budweiser-canada-delivers-beers-commemorative-kings-of-zero-cans-28-goaltenders-no-alex-ovechkin-goals/)** > > Alex Ovechkin broke the NHL's all-time goals record on Sunday after scoring on New York Islanders' goaltender Ilya Sorokin for the first… ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351/48 "2025-04-08T16:07:14Z")
Impressive showings from a bunch of not #1 goalies. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351/49 "2025-04-08T16:09:42Z")
Ilya Sorokin was in the club on non-scored-upon goalies until he let the record-breaker in. No beer for him! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351/50 "2025-04-08T21:46:33Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Eddie Lack, who gave up 4 goals to him, responded "this is bullshit. If I knew there was beers involved I would’ve tried harder.” And the truly great ones were already trying harder. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-second-best-ice-hockey-player-of-all-time/1012351.md?page=2)