# Who is the Shakespeare of your country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042 "2009-05-11T16:03:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/81 "2009-05-12T11:47:28Z")
For America the name that sprang to my mind was Poe. For New Zealand Mansfield would be up there…but I don’t know out authors well enough to offer a debate (to my shame) ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/82 "2009-05-12T12:01:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > For Israel, you have Bialik and Alterman for poets and Agnon (and maybe Kishon) for writers… I’d nominate Grossman before Kishon (I think he’s better known outside Israel, but ICBW,) otherwise I tend to agree with you. Having quibbled over this relatively minor point, I’ll just point out… > [@](#): > > … but actually, the Israeli Shakespeare is whoever wrote the Old Testament. This 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/83 "2009-05-12T12:11:48Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I can name authors from many countries who are regarded as giants of literature in the USA, but I’m not sure whether they’re regarded similarly at home. > > Leo Tolstoy and Fyodor Doestoevsky are probably the most revered Russian writers in the USA. Is their standing similarly high in Russia? Is either more highly esteemed than the other within Russia? That, I don’t know. > > If you were to ask most educated Americans to name the foreign writers whose works they were exposed to, whose works they were required to read, and whom was held up to them by teachers as the greatest writer their nation ever produced, I’d lay it out as follows: > > Denmark: Two utterly dissimilar writers come to mind: Hans Christian Andersen and Soren Kierkegaard areurely the best known and admired Danish writers here. > > England: Shakespeare, for poetery and drama; Charles Dickens for fiction > > Ireland: James Joyce is the most admired novelist, while George Bernard Shaw is the most esteemed dramatist. > > France: Victor Hugo is the most acclaimed of SERIOUS French writers (just ahead of Flaubert and Balzac), though Alexandre Dumas and Jules Verne are still much more widely read. Moliere is by far the most famous French playwright, though his works aren’t performed very often here. > > Germany: Very few German poets or fiction writers are widely read, or assigned to high school and college students here. Thomas Mann and Goethe are among the rare exceptions. If you were to ask a college student to name some German writers he had to read, he’s likely to point to philosophers or essayists, like Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels! > > Norway: Henrik Ibsen stands alone, here. > > Russia: Leo Tolstoy and Fyodor Dostoevsky > > Spain: Cervantes is about the only Spanish writer most Americans could name > > USA: There is no one writer that most Americans agree was our greatest, but Mark Twain is probably the most famous writer our nation has ever produced, and his “Huckleberry Finn” is widely regarded (by Hemingway, among others) as the greatest American novel. For the countries whose lit I am familiar with, **astorian** , this seems like a great list. I struggle with Twain for the USA - I agree with all those who vote yes, but see so many other options, too. I mean, I don’t think Walt Whitman and Leaves of Grass has been mentioned, but is considered very influential in establishing The American Voice™ in literature. I don’t see Fitzgerald mentioned, but The Great Gatsby feels closest IMHO to Huck in terms of being a Great American Novel - one for the 19th and one for the 20th century. And Fitz had a way with words: - She had a voice like money - There are no second acts in America - The rich are different from you and me You get the idea. I am not making a serious argument for him - Twain had a better way with words, coupled with his ability to embrace the homespun voice within our American narrative. But there are a number of writers who have deeply influenced the art forms we digest today… And \*\*Le Ministre \*\*- I am a huge Roberston Davies fan. But I hear you about straddling the gap between the US and UK. Reading him feels so Oxford, but there is a distinctly non-UK _joie de vivre_, too…a very wise voice. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/84 "2009-05-12T12:14:44Z")
Someone arguing that women were not as good as men stated to me “There’s never been a woman Shakespeare.” I replied: There’s never been another male Shakespeare, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/85 "2009-05-12T12:30:31Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > For New Zealand Mansfield would be up there…but I don’t know out authors well enough to offer a debate (to my shame) Even though I would agree that Katherine Mansfield would be widely considered New Zealand’s “best” writer, I personally have no idea why she is considered so, because to me her writing was very unimpressive. Another NZ writer I was told had a unique Kiwi voice was Frank Sargeson, who I think wrote in a logical sensible colloquial style, the way I would’ve (and have) written, but others apparently think that makes him “unique” and of note. I’m quite cynical about this subject, as you may be able to guess. ---
**Author:** ![Lunar\_Saltlick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/977dab/32.png) [@Lunar\_Saltlick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lunar_Saltlick)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/86 "2009-05-12T12:39:15Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Le Ministre de l’au-delà raises a key point, about the bilingual nature of the country. I would take that point further, and say that I do not think it is possible for Canada to produce a Shakespeare in the sense the OP is getting at - one that resonates with all Canadians. The reason is that the language of his plays is so important for his reputation - and since not all Canadians share the same mother tongue, it is highly unlikely that any author, writing in English or in French, could have the same national impact that Shakespeare could have for Britain. Tough not to go with Atwood for Canada, though. Prolific, poet, novelist, editor, playwright, well-known, with influence that crosses borders, and fairly popular in Quebec. To be sure, the man on the street in Quebec hasn’t read her stuff, but plenty of literate Quebecers have read her well-known works and certainly know of her generally left-leaning, pro-Quebec stance. Michel Tremblay and Robert Lepage are still mostly unknown in Canada, to Canada’s eternal discredit. For Lepage in particular to be unknown in Canada is embarrassing beyond belief. Gabrielle Roy is fairly well-known in English-speaking Canada, however, and she’s possibly the best candidate after Atwood. I’d also nominate Mavis Gallant, who is extremely well-known outside of Canada, and more popular in several countries than she is in the place of her birth. She bores me to tears, but she certainly appealed to the editors of the New Yorker for a couple of decades. My fave, however, is still Mordecai. To me, this guy is the Canadian Shakespeare, in temperament and tone. He belted them out to appeal to everybody, including low-brows like me. And he’s the only Canadian to have written truly sweeping epics, such as _Solomon Gursky Was Here_. Mind you, he was generally reviled in Quebec, but I’m sure Shakespeare was hated somewhere, wasn’t he? Robertson Davies, another one of my favorites, is mostly unknown in Quebec. The few people in Quebec who know of him don’t particularly like him, as far as I can tell. But he was prolific, incredibly smart and very funny. Margaret Laurence’s star has faded quickly, but for a time, she was probably the Canadian front-runner. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/87 "2009-05-12T12:45:22Z")
> [@WormTheRed](#): > > **Askance** , I’m simply going for the “top dog” of every nation, as I clarified in post #25 (which everyone seems to have overlooked 🙂 ) Well, part of the problem is that there is often a difference between the reputations of authors at home and internationally. Also, many of the authors listed so far are regarded in their home country as the founder of the national literature, but that doesn’t mean that their works are necessarily the best or the most popular outside that nation. So which is it? The founder of the national literature or the best author from each country? I think they are almost always going to be different. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/88 "2009-05-12T13:18:46Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Even though I would agree that Katherine Mansfield would be widely considered New Zealand’s “best” writer, I personally have no idea why she is considered so, because to me her writing was very unimpressive. > > Another NZ writer I was told had a unique Kiwi voice was Frank Sargeson, who I think wrote in a logical sensible colloquial style, the way I would’ve (and have) written, but others apparently think that makes him “unique” and of note. > > I’m quite cynical about this subject, as you may be able to guess. Then what about Maurice Gee? I loved “Once On Chunuk Bair” for a glimpse into the developing New Zealand psyche of the period… ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/89 "2009-05-12T14:47:31Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Then what about Maurice Gee? Ah, even though I’m familiar with his work generally, I’ve never actually read any of his books. His kids stuff like _Under The Mountain_ passed me by at a time I wasn’t into reading, then by the time I was I hadn’t looked back. I do like Margaret Mahy’s young adult stuff, though, and her style is extremely accessible. But I don’t think I’d include such recent and modern style writers in a comparison with a potential “NZ Shakespeare”. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/90 "2009-05-12T15:09:20Z")
This is one of those questions where the discussion is more interesting than any conclusion it might reach. Purely for interest’s sake, here is a link to the past winners and finalists of the [CBC Canada Reads](http://www.cbc.ca/canadareads/pastshows.html) competition. This year’s winner is at [this link](http://www.cbc.ca/canadareads/index.html). Canadians who have won the Man Booker prize are - Michael Ondaatje - The English Patient Margaret Atwood - The Blind Assassin Yann Martel - The Life of Pi Then there are the Giller prize winners - [Current](http://www.scotiabankgillerprize.ca/newsroom.htm) (scroll to news release dated November 11, 2008) [Past](http://www.scotiabankgillerprize.ca/past_winners_archive.htm) and the Governer General’s awards - [Current](http://www.canadacouncil.ca/news/releases/2008/ep128714281236840064.htm) [Past](http://www.canadacouncil.ca/prizes/ggla/de128686621849954868.htm) Not that prizes and awards should decide the question, but they are indicative of the respect in which some of the writers are held. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/91 "2009-05-12T15:31:06Z")
I think I’d nominate Athol Fugard for South Africa. He is pretty well known, and has many very well regarded plays. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/92 "2009-05-12T16:41:16Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > I think I’d nominate Athol Fugard for South Africa. He is pretty well known, and has many very well regarded plays. JM Coetzee or Nadine Gordimer. Coetzee won the Nobel and his novel Disgrace is not only the best single work of fiction I have read in the past decade but it speaks to South Africa’s inherent struggles with race and identity on a number of levels… ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/93 "2009-05-12T16:43:18Z")
> [@glee](#): > > England has Shakespeare. > > Scotland has [William McGonagall.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_McGonagall) \* > > \*or [Robert Burns!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Burns) Indeed. But if we’re talking novels, then it would be [Sir Walter Scott](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Scott). ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/94 "2009-05-12T16:49:57Z")
No Scots affection for Robert Louis Stevenson? ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/95 "2009-05-12T16:56:24Z")
I think Stevenson was the more romantic character, but Scott the more important writer. But, yeah, maybe Stevenson’s stories are more readable than Scott’s these days… ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/96 "2009-05-12T17:07:26Z")
The greatest _playwright_ for Spain is generally held to be Félix [Lope de Vega](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lope_de_Vega), called “el Fénix de los ingenios” (the phoenix of theaters). You can read a translation of his most famous drama [here](http://books.google.es/books?id=9C46Cui66w0C&dq=lope+de+vega&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=9P4i_tLqs0&sig=o93FSL_gWmI5u0ImJznlCSR3Z-k&hl=es&ei=tqoJSoC7NpTMjAeVi42TCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1). He wrote so many plays that only relatively few get performed, not because the rest are bad but simply because there’s So. Much. He was one of the most important writers of the Spanish “golden century”, along with Cervantes (whose Quijote created a new genre or two), Quevedo, Góngora and Calderón de la Barca. Cervantes is the most important writer in prose; Quevedo and Góngora have been fighting for the position of foremost poet for the last 5 centuries (they hated each other’s guts); Calderón’s “La Vida es Sueño” (“life is but a dream”) is considered by many to be allllmost as good as Lope’s Fuenteovejuna. Personally I don’t like Calderón or Góngora, but any of those guys had so much influence in Spanish letters that it’s hard to conceive how would we ever have gotten a Bécquer, Espronceda, García Lorca or the Machado brothers without them. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/97 "2009-05-12T17:15:28Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > I think I’d nominate Athol Fugard for South Africa. He is pretty well known, and has many very well regarded plays. True, but Alan Paton is probably better known internationally. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/98 "2009-05-12T19:21:48Z")
The problem with the U.S. is that Shakespeare is still our Shakespeare. Though he never stepped foot on our soil, he’s still revered as the giant wordsmith of the English language. I’m sure Shakespeare is still taught in more American classrooms than any American writer. But if I have to choose someone local, I guess it’s Twain, though there’s plenty of competition from Poe, Hawthorne, Melville, Whitman, Fitzgerald and many others. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/99 "2009-05-12T19:26:48Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Hmmm, interesting question. I’m not sure I could answer it for my own country. I can certainly give you a list of French authors the French zeigeist deems “The best French writers evah !”, but I have no idea whether or not they are known as such, or even known at all outside of France and French culture. > > For example, in terms of playwrights, if you’re not Corneille, Racine or Molière, you’re nobody. For novels, it’s Victor Hugo and Emile Zola. Poets ? That’s easy : Baudelaire, Raimbaud, Verlaine and maybe La Fontaine (although he shamelessly cribbed Aesop). Modern stuff : Sartre, Camus, Proust. > > Any of these names ring bells to you guys ? Every one of them is known outside of France. And Hugo dwarfs all the others. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042/100 "2009-05-12T21:47:25Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > Mark Twain maybe? He’s pretty famous around the world, right? I was going to say this. Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens. (Although he’s arguably our Oscar Wilde; I’m not sure we have a Shakespeare yet.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-shakespeare-of-your-country/496042.md?page=6)