# Who is the USA's Best Ally? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492 "2012-02-11T02:39:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/61 "2012-02-12T02:01:28Z")
I could vote for Germany. They’ve remained a strong pillar of democracy for the West, they’re Europe’s most stable economic powerhouse, and didn’t the fall of the Berlin wall greatly quicken the collapse of the eastern bloc and Soviet Union? I’d say they’re a pretty good ally to have. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/62 "2012-02-12T02:20:48Z")
> [@Dr.Crap](#): > > It’s a toss up between Satan and Canada. > [@Kobal2](#): > > I’d like to think our (France) standing against your latest adventure in Iraq was us being good allies as well. I mean, obviously we also had our selfish reasons for doing so, but still. Friends don’t let friends drive tanks drunk on Kool Aid 😛 I’d go with Australia as America’s best bud, especially when you factor how far Australia is from the US, in terms of both miles and spheres of interest. Canada is forced to cooperate with the US due to geography and practicality. Even so, Canada has told the US ‘no thanks’ on some of American’s misadventures, notably Iraq and Viet Nam, although Canada went into Afghanistan. Similarly, France has not gone along when America is in the wrong, yet has shown the US real friendship over centuries, sometimes to her own detriment. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/63 "2012-02-12T02:22:21Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I could vote for Germany. They’ve remained a strong pillar of democracy for the West, they’re Europe’s most stable economic powerhouse, and didn’t the fall of the Berlin wall greatly quicken the collapse of the eastern bloc and Soviet Union? I’d say they’re a pretty good ally to have. Do they send entire armies to bleed and die in their thousands to support US wars in the Middle East? I can only think of one country that does that. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/64 "2012-02-12T02:43:19Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Do they send entire armies to bleed and die in their thousands to support US wars in the Middle East? I can only think of one country that does that. …Poland? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/65 "2012-02-12T04:02:01Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Do they send entire armies to bleed and die in their thousands to support US wars in the Middle East? I can only think of one country that does that. Well, as others pointed out, it comes down to what you consider a “good ally.” Setting a better example and _not_ just marching off to war with your crazy buddy could be considered a better ally than one that just says “yeah, what he said!” to everything. ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/66 "2012-02-12T05:51:54Z")
I’m gonna come out with the crowd and say that the entire Anglosphere, that being Canada, Australia, the UK, and little old NZ are probably our BFFs 4ever in the world. I think that the vicissitudes of fate have drawn us closer to some of our other allies, particularly South Korea, but in terms of genuine comradeship, it’s gonna be our sisters in the Commonwealth. Though, as I’ve mentioned in other threads, I have a total thing for Turkey. When you compare them to our other Middle-East ally (cough cough), Turkey’s given us far less trouble in life. (I consider our war against Turkey to be water long under the bridge at this point.) But, and a big proviso, in terms of ‘countries that have given us, over time, the largest assistance,’ the answer’s gotta be the big cheese - without France, we’d be under the crumpet-mad jackboot of the English squirearchy and spelling everything wrong, too. The whole thing about the French as ‘cheese-eating surrender monkeys,’ in my opinion, is absurd, and has little basis in reality - if anything, I’d stereotype the French in the opposite direction, ie insanely aggressive and warlike people. Honestly, I hope next time there’s a NATO meeting, it concludes with lots of hugs. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/67 "2012-02-12T07:43:43Z")
Reading through this thread, I am reminded of John F. Kennedy’s speech to the Canadian Parliament, on May 17, 1961 ([cite](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=8136#axzz1m9Hi8TqF) to the whole speech): > [@Mr. Kennedy](#): > > Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder. Canada may not always agree with what the US does in the world, but that does not mean that we do not have your backs. You’ve certainly had ours in a number of conflicts. We may have our differences in foreign policy, but when the US needs a friend, Canada is always standing by, ready to help. We helped Americans escape fron Iran during the hostage crisis of 1979-1980 ([cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Caper)); and when the US closed its airspace as 9/11 was happening, Canada took all the inbound-to-US aircraft from wherever, as part of [Operation Yellow Ribbon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellow_Ribbon). And we must not forget that the North American Aerospace Defense Command ([NORAD](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Aerospace_Defense_Command)) is a joint US-Canada venture, with personnel of both countries working together to ensure North America’s defense. With all due respect to our European and Oceanic friends, I don’t see any of them stepping up to defend North America and the United States as Canada does daily as a part of NORAD. Echoing Mr. Kennedy’s words to Canada’s Parliament, I would suggest that geography, history, and necessity have made the US and Canada allies. Perhaps the best kind; since though we may be independent sovereign nations, we must work together in all ways to ensure our safety and prosperity. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/68 "2012-02-12T09:06:10Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > They do? I was unaware of this. It’s in neither national interests to talk up the closeness of some aspects of the relationship, both countries need to appear independent and self-interested. But in particular areas, the UK and US are close to being one entity. This is what the UK puts in, and which has a very significant presence among friends in some Washington buildings: > **[GCHQ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Communications_Headquarters)** > > Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) is an intelligence and security organisation responsible for providing signals intelligence (SIGINT) and information assurance (IA) to the government and armed forces of the United Kingdom. Primarily based at The Doughnut in the suburbs of Cheltenham, GCHQ is the responsibility of the country's Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Foreign Secretary), but it is not a part of the Foreign Office and its director ranks as a Permanen... ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/69 "2012-02-12T12:56:13Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Note I say that the _statement_ is a racist statement, not that the person making it is necessarily a racist person. A person can be uninformed, a statement cannot be. If anything I’d say the statement is non-racist/anti-Semitic, but the speaker is likely to be. Not in this case of course, I’m making no such accusations on these boards (that would be so tiresome). But there is nothing anti-Semitic (or racist) in saying Jews largely control the media in itself. It is, however, the kind of statement you’d expect to hear from an anti-Semite and not many others. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Taking a broader view I actually think we might make an argument for France. Now, I know that we’ve had toss ups with the French, and that figures like de Gaulle historically engaged in recreational American-bashing for the purpose of strengthening domestic political support. (I actually have no ill will against de Gaulle, he basically was **exactly** what a French leader should be, concerned with France’s interests over her allies.) > > However, in the history of our relationship with France we’ve actually squabbled with them far less often and far less violently than we have with the British. We obviously have fought two open wars against the British. We fought several “near wars” with them over border issues in the 19th century, and the British were supportive of the Confederacy at the beginning of the ACW (although France was marginally supportive of them as well.) > > With France, we had the “proxy war” but unless I’m mistaken we’ve never actually had a declared war against France. > > So far we have the fact that we’ve warred with the British and we haven’t warred with the French, and the final trump card in favor of the French in my opinion is their support during the American Civil War. While I think some have historically _overemphasized_ French support, that is only because it really was very important to our efforts. In the same way France is one of the UK’s best allies despite being their arch-enemy for many centuries before the 20th. I think historical aspects should mostly be ignored if they’re not reflected in existed relationships. I’m surprised to see you say French support is overemphasized. I’m also wondering if you mean the American War of Independence, because I’m not sure France was particularly involved in ACW, plus of course the “civil” side to that war means if they were supporting one part of the US they were hindering the other. If you _do_ mean what you wrote then you’re completely missing the huge contribution the French made to American independence. Admitedly they only did it to piss the British off, but without France there’s a good chance that little revolt would have been put down. I’ve always thought French support has been completely _underemphasized_ by most Americans, especially the ones who feel France “owes” the US for WW2 (I see it as returning the favour). It is my opinion, though, that the US is increasingly looking to France as a European ally instead of the “obvious” choice of the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/70 "2012-02-12T18:40:50Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > However, in the history of our relationship with France we’ve actually squabbled with them far less often and far less violently than we have with the British. We obviously have fought two open wars against the British. The US was created by violent revolution against Britain; it’s hardly a surprise that there was violence between us. What this has to do with current allied status and how it is a black mark against it I have no idea. The US has never fought wars with Norway, Belgium, Kuwait or Thailand. By your logic this makes all of them closer allies to the US than Britain, which is clearly nonsense. > [@](#): > > We fought several “near wars” with them over border issues in the 19th century, and the British were supportive of the Confederacy at the beginning of the ACW (although France was marginally supportive of them as well.) France was far, far, far more supportive of the Confederacy than Britain ever was. [Napoleon III](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_III#United_States_of_America) wanted to intervene in the war on the side of the Confederacy but wouldn’t do it without the British support as well which wasn’t forthcoming. You’ve got British and French support for the Confederacy on its head. If “near wars” are to be counted for anything, you’ve got Britain and France upside down again. Nappy III didn’t get his wish for siding with the Confederacy but did take the opportunity to invade and take over Mexico while the US was distracted by the Civil War. When the Civil War was concluded, [50,000](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico#American_perspective) US troops were massed on the border with Mexico with the clear intention of threatening France with war; and on Feb 12, 1866 the US officially demanded the withdrawal of French forces from Mexico. Any border disputes between the US and Britain over who owned what uninhabited speck of an island on the US/Canadian border don’t even rise to the level of chickenfeed in comparison. > [@](#): > > So far we have the fact that we’ve warred with the British and we haven’t warred with the French, and the final trump card in favor of the French in my opinion is their support during the American Civil War. As noted, France supported the Confederacy, not the US. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/71 "2012-02-12T22:07:45Z")
Meant to post a new thread ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/72 "2012-02-13T01:35:54Z")
> [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > …Canada, Australia, the UK, and little old NZ are probably our BFFs 4ever in the world. Though we (little old NZ that is) got sent to stand in the corner for 20 years after we said that we didn’t want to play host to your “nuclear wessels”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/73 "2012-02-13T06:33:18Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er… nobody has accused you of being one. > > Moreover, fucking a Jewish girl does not preclude one from having issues with Jews. Ask H. P. Lovecraft! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/74 "2012-02-13T06:41:33Z")
I saw the thread title and thought, “NoonesayIsrael!NoonesayIsrael!NoonesayIsrael!” And there it was, right in the OP. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/75 "2012-02-13T15:29:36Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I saw the thread title and thought, “NoonesayIsrael!NoonesayIsrael!NoonesayIsrael!” > > And there it was, right in the OP. Sigh. Not at all surprising or unexpected, is it? I rarely hear a peep out of Canada, Mexico, Australia, etc. Israel is featured in the news every day. Every single day. I’m almost 50 years old and I can’t remember a single day I’ve watched the news and there wasn’t a segment on the day’s latest from Israel. The weather, sports, and Israel. You can count on those three things watching American news. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/76 "2012-02-13T16:03:44Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > In all seriousness though, the use of the word ally with regards to Israel always irks me. We are not allies, there is no alliance between the US and Israel. When Israel has been attacked and if it is attacked in the future, the US will not militarily go to Israel’s aid. 😕 I’m sure we would if they really needed it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/77 "2012-02-13T16:06:05Z")
I’d say Canada and the UK are our strongest allies, with Germany also up there…plus places like Australia, Japan and South Korea also being on the list. The fact is most of the major nations on earth are pretty good friends and allies to the US, if you leave what their various citizens think of us out of the equation. 😛 And also if you don’t try and figure whether WE are particularly good allies to THEM. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/78 "2012-02-13T16:26:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 I’m sure we would if they really needed it. You mean like we did in '48, '56, '67, '73, and every time Israel has been subjected to yet another terrorist attack or cross border rocket attack? There is no alliance between the US and Israel, and at this point it’s hard to imagine Israel being in such desperate straights that they ‘really need’ our help militarily. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/79 "2012-02-13T16:28:53Z")
The general consensus seems to be “every majority white, English speaking country”. Curious. The US didn’t offer the UK with military aid during the Falklands War, but it did offer intelligence, diplomatic aid with the other South American states, and lots and lots of Sidewinder missiles. On the other hand, the UK (government) has been happy to support the US in all of our current military misadventures. The US clearly comes in a distant second when it comes to who the UK’s best ally is- to [Portugal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance). > [@PrettyVacant](#): > > In terms of Intel, MI6 and other UK agencies do have entire floors in CIA buildings in Washington, I guess that might put the UK ahead of the spying Israelis… There is also a slightly wider ‘inner cirlce’ of the English-speaking old Anglo-Saxon nations that has very significant cooperation agreements. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > They do? I was unaware of this. The CIA doesn’t know either. That’s how intelligence agencies work. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/80 "2012-02-13T16:44:55Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Not at all surprising or unexpected, is it? I rarely hear a peep out of Canada, Mexico, Australia, etc. Israel is featured in the news every day. Every single day. I’m almost 50 years old and I can’t remember a single day I’ve watched the news and there wasn’t a segment on the day’s latest from Israel. The weather, sports, and Israel. You can count on those three things watching American news. I made my comment because debates about Isreal tend to be the most tendentious ones on the Dope. And tiresomest, too. Didn’t want to see the thread devolve into that, and to be fair, it has not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492.md?page=5)