# Who is the USA's Best Ally? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492 "2012-02-11T02:39:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/81 "2012-02-13T17:49:58Z")
As someone once said “Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.” So I would nominate one of those dicatorships where we send our terrorism suspects for “enhanced” interrogation. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/82 "2012-02-13T18:14:59Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > As someone once said “Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.” So I would nominate one of those dicatorships where we send our terrorism suspects for “enhanced” interrogation. Friends aren’t always allies, and allies aren’t always friends. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/83 "2012-02-13T21:18:31Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > In all seriousness though, the use of the word ally with regards to Israel always irks me. We are not allies, there is no alliance between the US and Israel. When Israel has been attacked and if it is attacked in the future, the US will not militarily go to Israel’s aid. Israel will not militarily come to America’s aid should the US be attacked. After the 9/11 attacks NATO came to America’s aid. Israel did not. Why? The US and NATO nations are allies. Any attack upon one member within the North Atlantic area is considered an attack upon all members; the nations within NATO have all pledged mutual defense. The US and Israel are friends, not allies. Technically speaking, Israel is a [Major non-NATO ally (MNNA).](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally)YMMV as to how much that title’s worth. That said, the reason Israel didn’t come to America’s aid after 9/11 is because the U.S. didn’t want it - the last thing it wanted to do when invading Afghanistan was bring along Israelis, who are, let’s say, not the most popular people in the Muslim world. I’m sure that if Washington had asked for it, Israel would have provided any help it could give. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/84 "2012-02-13T21:25:31Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] That said, the reason Israel didn’t come to America’s aid after 9/11 is because the U.S. didn’t want it - the last thing it wanted to do when invading Afghanistan was bring along Israelis, who are, let’s say, not the most popular people in the Muslim world. I’m sure that if Washington had asked for it, Israel would have provided any help it could give. [/QUOTE] Yep. Same with the Gulf Wars and Afghanistan…having Israel actively engage would be problematic in the region. Doesn’t mean that they aren’t an ally…just the opposite. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/85 "2012-02-13T22:55:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The general consensus seems to be “every majority white, English speaking country”. Curious. > > The US didn’t offer the UK with military aid during the Falklands War, but it did offer intelligence, diplomatic aid with the other South American states, and lots and lots of Sidewinder missiles. To be fair I doubt the UK government wanted help to fight the military might of Argentina over some small islands. > [@Alessan](#): > > Technically speaking, Israel is a [Major non-NATO ally (MNNA).](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally)YMMV as to how much that title’s worth. > > That said, the reason Israel didn’t come to America’s aid after 9/11 is because the U.S. didn’t want it - the last thing it wanted to do when invading Afghanistan was bring along Israelis, who are, let’s say, not the most popular people in the Muslim world. I’m sure that if Washington had asked for it, Israel would have provided any help it could give. I don’t believe Israel would do anything for anyone else that wasn’t self-serving. Maybe they’d relish the chance to kill some Muslims, but I think they’re quite happy to fight with Arabs rather than getting involved with Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/86 "2012-02-13T23:46:14Z")
Not only would they relish the chance to kill Muslims, they’d do it while kicking puppies. Astute analysis. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/87 "2012-02-13T23:47:08Z")
Don’t forget about pushing baby chicks into the croc pond…that’s vitally important! They steal candy from babies too, but that’s another matter… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/88 "2012-02-14T01:16:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That said, the reason Israel didn’t come to America’s aid after 9/11 is because the U.S. didn’t want it - the last thing it wanted to do when invading Afghanistan was bring along Israelis, who are, let’s say, not the most popular people in the Muslim world. I’m sure that if Washington had asked for it, Israel would have provided any help it could give. I didn’t intend to imply that there was anything wrong with it or that Israel was a bad friend because of it and apologize if it came across that way. My intention was only to demonstrate the difference between friends and allies. The US and Israel do not have mutual defense obligations with each other, the US and NATO do. As you said, there are very good reasons the US doesn’t desire direct Israeli military support and vice versa. It doesn’t make the relationship any less friendly. Regardless of how the Nunn amendment chooses to use the word, ‘ally’ as a descriptor for Israel usually happens under one of two circumstances: politicians sound-biting ‘Israel is our best (or only) ally in the Middle East’ or something similar to the OP where Israel is America’s best ally because the Joos run all the banks and control the government. Well that and the occasional numb nuts who thinks Israel is a beachhead of American Imperialism in the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/89 "2012-02-14T03:48:13Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > As someone once said “Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.” So I would nominate one of those dicatorships where we send our terrorism suspects for “enhanced” interrogation. That would include Thailand, except it’s a democracy. (Nominally; it’s actually a military dictatorship that allows a semblance of democracy and steps in if things get out of hand.) A lot of those guys have ended up at the old Sattahip naval base. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/90 "2012-02-14T04:58:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That said, the reason Israel didn’t come to America’s aid after 9/11 is because the U.S. didn’t want it - the last thing it wanted to do when invading Afghanistan was bring along Israelis, who are, let’s say, not the most popular people in the Muslim world. Are you kidding ? Had Israeli boots been on the ground in Afghanistan, the heads of every Taliban from here to Katmandu would have asploded out of sheer outrage. Bam, end of the war right there. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/91 "2012-02-14T15:03:12Z")
Regarding Israel: many times, Israel has offered emergency aid to Muslim countries (when there has been a natural disaster-like tsunamis, earthquakes, etc.). Invariably, it is refused. I think this is because muslim governments do not want their people to be exposed to Israelis-they might find out that they are humans, after all. Israel is a small country that threatens no one-yet, they are useful to arab despots, who like to blame all their ills on Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/92 "2012-02-14T16:44:59Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Not only would they relish the chance to kill Muslims, they’d do it while kicking puppies. > Astute analysis. > [@xtisme](#): > > Don’t forget about pushing baby chicks into the croc pond…that’s vitally important! They steal candy from babies too, but that’s another matter… > > -XT Sarcastic comments on my post without any actual substance or counter points aren’t really a great contribution are they? You may disagree with my statement but at least it’s relevant to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/93 "2012-02-14T16:59:01Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Sarcastic comments on my post without any actual substance or counter points aren’t really a great contribution are they? You may disagree with my statement but at least it’s relevant to the discussion. Your statement was baseless, mildly offensive and displayed ignorance of Israel and Israeli society. If you wish to defend it, please present cites. Cool? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/94 "2012-02-14T17:05:13Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > How can you tell the difference? 😕 Satan has his bad points, but he’s never boring. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/95 "2012-02-14T17:09:58Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er… nobody has accused you of being one. > > Moreover, fucking a Jewish girl does not preclude one from having issues with Jews. They control the media, the government … and used to control the blowjob supply. ☹ That’s some heavy duty control, right there. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/96 "2012-02-14T17:22:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Your statement was baseless, mildly offensive and displayed ignorance of Israel and Israeli society. If you wish to defend it, please present cites. > > Cool? Israeli society has nothing to do with Israeli foreign policy. My statement was also not baseless - the Israeli government and military (to be clearer than just saying “Israel”) often pursue very aggressive policies against the Muslims living in Israel and the neighbouring countries and have on several occasions broken international law in the process (as continues to happen with the settlements on occupied land, which I admit is not does still suggest a strong lack of respect for their Muslim neighbours). I’m not going to cite anything at the moment because the issues have been covered well enough in the news over the years. I’m genuinely sorry that you find what I said offensive, and I’m sure I could have phrased it in a more sensitive way. But similar comments can and have been made about other countries (how many people have made comments regarding the US and their supposed desire to start wars with anyone for oil?). Israel seems to be a special case in some people’s minds, as if it should immune from criticism, but in my opinion many (but certainly not the majority of) aspects of Israeli foreign policy need to be criticized. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/97 "2012-02-14T17:30:11Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Sarcastic comments on my post without any actual substance or counter points aren’t really a great contribution are they? Considering that your contribution was worse than worthless, mocking it seems like a fairly equitable solution. I’d also say that mocking absurd blather is more worthwhile than the blathering itself. So my contribution was more valuable than yours. I see that you’ve now hopped up on the cross, though, and you’re claiming that people noted your worthless contribution because nobody wants you to criticize Israel. I think that the mockery wasn’t potent enough… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/98 "2012-02-14T17:42:38Z")
Israel may act aggressively at times (although no more aggressive than other countries in armed conflicts, and much less than most), but it does not do so out of any specific animus against Arabs or Muslims. By and large, Israel fights because it believes it is protecting its citizens and its territory. You may disagree as to whether it doing so in a wise and moral fashion, or indeed as to what defines “its territory”, but saying that Israel likes killing Muslims - or that Israelis, as a rule, hate Muslims - is displaying ignorance. As for “self-serving” - all nations are self-serving. That’s what nations do. Is Israel more self-serving than other countries? I’ve seen no proof of this. If you have evidence to the contrary, please let me know. One last thing: if there’s one thing that I’ve learned in nearly 12 years on this board, it’s that Israel may be many things, but immune to criticism isn’t one of them. The rest of the internet, U.S. and other, seems to support this. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/99 "2012-02-14T17:43:20Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Considering that your contribution was worse than worthless, mocking it seems like a fairly equitable solution. I’d also say that mocking absurd blather is more worthwhile than the blathering itself. So my contribution was more valuable than yours. > > I see that you’ve now hopped up on the cross, though, and you’re claiming that people noted your worthless contribution because nobody wants you to criticize Israel. I think that the mockery wasn’t potent enough… The point is, if it’s “absurd blather” then at least include some mention of why it is so. I’m also not claiming that nobody wants me to criticize Israel, but I am claiming that there is hypocrisy in the lack of condemnation for many of Israel’s actions when other countries are so easily criticized. For example, the USA’s repeated vetoing of resolutions to condemn Israel’s actions (including the breaking of international law) while being ready and willing to do the same for other countries. As I previously mentioned, another example is the general open season on American foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492/100 "2012-02-14T17:54:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You may disagree as to whether it doing so in a wise and moral fashion, or indeed as to what defines “its territory”, but saying that Israel likes killing Muslims - or that Israelis, as a rule, hate Muslims - is displaying ignorance. I admit it was an exaggeration. I believe the Israeli government has little respect for Muslims in general and effectively treats them as underclass. I also believe they make little attempt to avoid Muslim casualties when there’s a chance they’ll occur and that they show little remorse when they do occur. Saying they “like” killing Muslims was a lazy way to express that and was partly based on anger. I also didn’t really take this thread as an entirely serious debate which is probably why I didn’t phrase what I said a bit better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-the-usas-best-ally/612492.md?page=6)