# Who is/was the best Ex-President? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 3, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046 "2018-08-03T15:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/41 "2018-08-06T12:36:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Reagan saw the ex-presidency as a cash cow. Carter is not only the best ex-president, he’s by far and away the most morally upright man ever to occupy the office. If we elect Joe Biden I think we can beat that, plus get competency and someone comfortable working with DC’s power brokers to boot. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/42 "2018-08-06T12:40:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But unlike Carter, Obama was very comfortable with the politicians’ standard toolkit: lying, spinning, avoiding responsibility, lack of transparency… According to the various fact-checking organizations, Obama was generally far more honest than most of his opponents, critics, and competitors. People with intense personal dislike of the man, like you, are certainly inclined to view him unfavorably, but IMO the facts don’t bear out your criticisms. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/43 "2018-08-06T12:54:07Z")
I don’t think you can deny anything I said though, and “more honest than most of his opponents” is moral relativism, also something politicians are very comfortable with, but Carter was not being an actual Christian and all. I also doubt you can deny that he was a typical politician. Carter, for all his faults, was not. His strangeness is precisely what caused pretty much all of DC to turn on him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/44 "2018-08-06T12:57:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think you can deny anything I said though, and “more honest than most of his opponents” is moral relativism, also something politicians are very comfortable with, but Carter was not being an actual Christian and all. Sure I can – it was a fact-free pure opinion statement (not that Obama has lied at times, or done other things every politician has done at times, but the implication that he did them as commonly as standard shady politicians). Are you honestly saying that it’s wrong or improper to rate potential candidates and politicians on who is more or less honest? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/45 "2018-08-06T13:00:21Z")
Wouldn’t Cleveland 22 be a good ex-President? He was able to get re-elected after 4 years off. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/46 "2018-08-06T13:04:43Z")
I don’t think Politifact is the best way to measure that. Politifact rates getting things wrong the same as intentionally lying. They rate getting a stat wrong the same as lying about ethics issues. And skillful spin can deceive and still get rated “mostly true”. Politifact does not look at the impression people will get from a statement, they can only analyze it at face value. Obama, unlike Carter, was dedicated to communications and campaigning in a way Carter found distasteful. It made Obama a far more effective politician, and I noted that he was a mostly scandal-free politician. But he was very comfortable with being dishonest, and you even started a thread on his dishonesty yourself. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=748859&highlight=pretended](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=748859&highlight=pretended) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/47 "2018-08-06T13:13:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think Politifact is the best way to measure that. Politifact rates getting things wrong the same as intentionally lying. They rate getting a stat wrong the same as lying about ethics issues. And skillful spin can deceive and still get rated “mostly true”. Politifact does not look at the impression people will get from a statement, they can only analyze it at face value. If they’re not the best way, then propose a better way. The impressions of a person who has admitted to an intense personal dislike of a politician appears to me to be an obviously inferior way. > [@](#): > > But he was very comfortable with being dishonest, and you even started a thread on his dishonesty yourself. > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=748859&highlight=pretended](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=748859&highlight=pretended) “Very comfortable” is editorializing (with a personal bent). He lied intentionally at least once – and I posted because I thought it was both obvious and notable. “Very comfortable with being dishonest” is the cite-free opinion of someone who personally dislikes the man. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/48 "2018-08-06T13:15:50Z")
If you like your insurance you can keep it. And don’t feed me that crap about insurance companies dropping plans. Obama signed executive orders ending insurance plans for people who both wanted to keep their insurance and where insurance companies wanted to sell it. Trump just undid one of those so that people could again buy their old plans or something similar. One thing I will say about Obama that is good is that even post-Presidency he’s continuing to use post-racial rhetoric even though it can’t help him anymore and it steps on the toes of some lefties who don’t like that kind of talk. That means he really means it. At a time when a lot of Democrats are pushing the identity politics hard, Obama seems to be fighting that tide as best he can without sparking a war. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/49 "2018-08-06T13:35:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If you like your insurance you can keep it. And don’t feed me that crap about insurance companies dropping plans. Obama signed executive orders ending insurance plans for people who both wanted to keep their insurance and where insurance companies wanted to sell it. Trump just undid one of those so that people could again buy their old plans or something similar. To prevent a hijack, I won’t continue this except to say that it’s just more cite-free editorializing from an admitted Obama-hater. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/50 "2018-08-06T13:46:07Z")
It’s a cite free thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/51 "2018-08-06T13:47:52Z")
Jimmy Carter is by far the most accomplished ex-President in recent history. Of the US NARA Presidential Libraries and Museums (from FDR onward), this is abundantly clear. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/52 "2018-08-06T13:49:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s a cite free thread. And Obama’s ineptitude is a target-rich environment. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/53 "2018-08-06T13:50:07Z")
Yes, let’s let the hijack go. And stop labeling other posters as well, please. That’s never a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/54 "2018-08-06T14:26:58Z")
So, yeah, the US NARA Presidential Libraries and Museums are worth visiting, and each is a slice of history focused, of course, on the man’s life who was President. I’ve been to about half of them, and Carter’s Presidential Museum in Atlanta is markedly different in that a significant portion of the displays and information presented is focused on his accomplishments after his Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/55 "2018-08-06T19:17:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If we elect Joe Biden I think we can beat that, plus get competency and someone comfortable working with DC’s power brokers to boot. I don’t understand the “squeaky clean” Joe Biden image we have now. Is this the same Joe Biden that dropped out of the 1988 Presidential primary because he exaggerated his college grades, graduation standing, number of degrees and due to a (slightly overblown) but nonetheless real plagiarism issue? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/56 "2018-08-06T20:45:53Z")
In modern times it’s almost certainly Carter but this might be the best answer: > [@Chronos](#): > > You could say in all seriousness that Washington established the position of ex-President, and it was not at all a given that he would have. He could very easily have remained President-for-Life, and if he had, that would have set the pattern for all who followed. Oh, we’d still have occasionally had Presidents voted out before their death, but they’d be the exception, not the rule. I think most non-historians don’t realize the importance of every single thing Washington did, including voluntarily stepping down and becoming an ex-president. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/57 "2018-08-07T11:52:44Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I don’t understand the “squeaky clean” Joe Biden image we have now. Is this the same Joe Biden that dropped out of the 1988 Presidential primary because he exaggerated his college grades, graduation standing, number of degrees and due to a (slightly overblown) but nonetheless real plagiarism issue? Nobody’s perfect, but Biden, like Carter, is a man of deep and sincere faith, and he hasn’t made a dime off his office when almost everyone in politics as long as he’s been is a multimillionaire. And unlike Carter, his family is made up of rock solid people that won’t embarrass him. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/58 "2018-08-07T12:38:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nobody’s perfect, but Biden, like Carter, is a man of deep and sincere faith, and he hasn’t made a dime off his office when almost everyone in politics as long as he’s been is a multimillionaire. We’re just making stuff up now. That’s my concern. We are so desperate to unseat Trump that we’re trying to prop up a very old, average politician as the next coming. Joe was know as a somewhat bumbling Senator, who could be counted on to say the wrong thing at the wrong time. That is how he started his Vice-Presidency, as kind of a knucklehead. When the aforementioned embellishment about his academic record and plagiarism happened, some chalked it up to Joe being Joe, which is it’s own indictment. > [@adaher](#): > > And unlike Carter, his family is made up of rock solid people that won’t embarrass him. His family. I presume for this argument his family doesn’t include is son then? His son Hunter, required two waivers, which was unheard of to join the Naval Reserve. One was an over age waiver, and one was for previous drug use. A month after he was in, when he knew he’d have to take a mandatory drug test, he failed for cocaine. He was bounced from the Navy, a fact that was kept quiet for six months. Not sure if his affair with his brother’s wife happened before or after this but I think it was later. That’d be embarrassing to me. YMMV. Our desperation to find our next candidate just smells horrid. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/59 "2018-08-07T13:02:45Z")
Kids with problems isn’t all that embarassing. Most of us can relate. Brothers that piggy back on your influence to make money for themselves, now that’s embarrassing. But this thread really isn’t about candidate selection, just that decent men can be Presidents. There are some TYPES of good men who can’t do that job, like the Bible Thumping preachy types, but Joe’s not really in that category. He’s a decent man who knows how to talk to bad men. Carter got to the point where he assumed the best of truly evil men, and assumed the worst about people who merely disagreed with him. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046/60 "2018-08-07T15:44:26Z")
**adaher** , we’ll have to agree to disagree then. If my son was kicked out of the military because he failed a drug test for cocaine, I wouldn’t call him a “rock solid [son] that won’t embarrass” me. I’d be more than a bit embarrassed, but we may have different standards. Perhaps after Trump it won’t much matter. I’m more than a little concerned that we’re almost half way to the next presidential election and well appears to be so dry that we’re trying, desperately trying, to mold a man who would be 78 on inauguration day into the politician that we’d like him to be, not the one he actually is. A man who graduated at the bottom of his college class, the bottom of his law school class, and who’s career is filled with plagiarism and exaggeration issues. A guy who got absolutely no traction when the likes of Clinton and Obama were in play. In short, I think lipstick on this pig will mean four more years of Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-was-the-best-ex-president/819046.md?page=4)