# Who Is Winning In Syria? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316 "2012-10-30T12:33:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/201 "2013-08-27T07:35:12Z")
Anyway, I think the USA is now set on some kind of military intervention. Probably Obama hopes it can be kept at a minimum bombing campaign. Which a whooping 9% of Americans support ([As Syria war escalates, Americans cool to U.S. intervention: Reuters/Ipsos poll](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/25/us-syria-crisis-usa-poll-idUSBRE97O00E20130825)). But wouldn’t Obama require Congress approval to bomb the shit out of the Syrians? In any case Saudi Arabia already have a very competent - or at least well equipped - airforce, with many shining new US toys ([US sells $30bn in F-15 jets to Saudi Arabia](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16358068)), and Turkey has one of the largest armies on the world. What is it Obama thinks he can accomplish that those two couldn’t if they had the will? And if the two nations most ardently condemning Assad aren’t willing to stand up, why should the USA or Europe? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/202 "2013-08-27T23:04:59Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Anyway, I think the USA is now set on some kind of military intervention. Probably Obama hopes it can be kept at a minimum bombing campaign. Which a whooping 9% of Americans support ([As Syria war escalates, Americans cool to U.S. intervention: Reuters/Ipsos poll](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/25/us-syria-crisis-usa-poll-idUSBRE97O00E20130825)). But wouldn’t Obama require Congress approval to bomb the shit out of the Syrians? > > In any case Saudi Arabia already have a very competent - or at least well equipped - airforce, with many shining new US toys ([US sells $30bn in F-15 jets to Saudi Arabia](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16358068)), and Turkey has one of the largest armies on the world. What is it Obama thinks he can accomplish that those two couldn’t if they had the will? And if the two nations most ardently condemning Assad aren’t willing to stand up, why should the USA or Europe? Amen. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/203 "2013-08-28T07:16:05Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > … why should the USA or Europe? We shouldn’t, and everyone knows it, but Obama is a bumbling buffoon and he’s going to do it anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/204 "2013-08-28T09:15:55Z")
The problem is that Obama keeps trying to coerce the Syrians out of their worst excesses and they keep calling his bluffs. Threatening intervention if the Syrian government used chemical weapons on its own people was a reasonable diplomatic tactic and would have worked in many circumstances. The problem is that we’re dealing with crazy, brutal dictators who don’t care what we do, and it’s hard to psych out a psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/205 "2013-08-28T13:52:56Z")
Isn’t it Obama’s job to know, “Hey, this one is nuts, so don’t make blustery empty threats because he’ll call your bluff and undermine your credibility”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/206 "2013-08-28T14:35:05Z")
😕 Now, I’m not sure how reliable [this](http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014578419) [is](http://iranian.com/posts/view/post/19821) . . . because both links attribute the story to something called the “EU Times,” but the links are dead, and while googling finds several hits for the “EU Times,” they are all dead links, and there is no Wikipedia page for such a publication . . . but if it’s for real . . . :eek: If it’s for real, Putin threatens to respond to any Western attack on Syria by attacking . . . Saudi Arabia?! 😕 > [@](#): > > A grim “urgent action memorandum” issued today from the office of President Putin to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is ordering a “massive military strike” against Saudi Arabia in the event that the West attacks Syria. > > According to Kremlin sources familiar with this extraordinary “war order,” Putin became “enraged” after his early August meeting with Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan who warned that if Russia did not accept the defeat of Syria, Saudi Arabia would unleash Chechen terrorists under their control to cause mass death and chaos during the Winter Olympics scheduled to be held 7-23 February 2014 in Sochi, Russia. > > Lebanese newspaper As-Safir confirmed this amazing threat against Russia saying that Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord by stating: “I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us.” > > Prince Bandar went on to say that Chechens operating in Syria were a pressure tool that could be switched on an off. “These groups do not scare us. We use them in the face of the Syrian regime but they will have no role in Syria’s political future.” ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/207 "2013-08-28T15:04:00Z")
[The EU Times](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/European_Union_Times) > [@](#): > > The European Union Times claims to be a news site. Its articles on Barack Obama have been linked from a few Libertarian teabag blogs, presumably pleased to find what is apparently a news site that supports some of their views. It even has lots of mainstream advertising served by ContextWeb! Eminently respectable to all appearances. > > Upon closer inspection, however, it is little more than a compiler and regurgitator of various news stories and a particularly unpleasant far-right-leaning blog. The reporting is, without exception, shockingly unprofessional. Do not be fooled by the nice WordPress theme - this is utter neo-Nazi bollocks. > [@](#): > > Almost every piece of information the site proffers about the world and, more worryingly, itself, is a demonstrably deliberate falsehood. Anyone who takes the site seriously, despite the evidence of its utter unreliability and lunatic views which springs to the eye almost immediately upon visiting it, is either a Nazi, a blind ideologue or a complete fucking idiot. Not that you are an idiot of any sort but The EU Times is a notorious piece of crap. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/208 "2013-08-28T15:13:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The problem is that Obama keeps trying to coerce the Syrians out of their worst excesses and they keep calling his bluffs. Threatening intervention if the Syrian government used chemical weapons on its own people was a reasonable diplomatic tactic and would have worked in many circumstances. The problem is that we’re dealing with crazy, brutal dictators who don’t care what we do, and it’s hard to psych out a psychopath. So now Obama seems to think that he can “influence” Assad by launching some missile strikes on him? The whole thing just makes Obama look stupid-and what is next? Suppose Assad says that the USA is now a terrorist regime (murdering Syrian civilians)-what does Obama do then? Reminds me of “Heart of Darkness”…where the narrator talks about the battleship firing shells at the African coast (while the crew is dying). This makes just as much sense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/209 "2013-08-28T15:15:22Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > [The EU Times](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/European_Union_Times) > > Not that you are an idiot of any sort but The EU Times is a notorious piece of crap. Well, that’s reassuring, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/210 "2013-08-28T15:24:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, that’s reassuring, I guess. It’s easy to get fooled because it gets picked up by more normally reliable news aggregators and probably just through Stopped Clock logic gets things sounding plausibly right. It used to crop up in my Zite and Flipboard feeds until I ‘Thumbs Downed’ it out of existence as a source. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/211 "2013-08-28T18:50:33Z")
I’d consider the threats against Israel more plausible. If I were Israeli right now, I’d have my diplomat yelling at the American diplomat to stop this stupid, symbolic military action. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/212 "2013-08-28T19:06:23Z")
So now the White House is telling UN inspectors to stop what they’re doing and get out of the way because the US knows all it needs. Hozzat work? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/213 "2013-09-01T18:41:53Z")
Well, here’s Putin sounding entirely too reasonable about the whole thing. I hate it when that happens. > **[Putin Rejects Idea Syria Used Chemical Weapons](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324463604579046691326294378)** > > The Russian president called the idea that the Syrian regime would use chemical weapons "absolute nonsense" and said military action isn't justified against a sovereign state. Obama and his red line and the fact that apparently he’s the only one who really, really wants to blow something up in Syria and it’s all based on some “secret” info which apparently is really just some snippets of conversation just like the snippets of conversations er… “secret info” that closed all our embassies in the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/214 "2013-09-11T14:33:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’d consider the threats against Israel more plausible. If I were Israeli right now, I’d have my diplomat yelling at the American diplomat to stop this stupid, symbolic military action. Nonsense. Israel has already struck against Assad _themselves_. If he thought it feasible to retaliate against Israel, he has grounds regardless of US action. But Israel has said they are ready for any eventuality, and I reckon Assad knows they mean it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/215 "2013-09-11T14:44:00Z")
[Is Israel pushing for a strike on Syria? Israelis support a US strike on Syria, but their larger concern is maintaining US credibility in the region in order to deter Iran.]([Is Israel pushing for a strike on Syria? - CSMonitor.com](http://csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2013/0909/Is-Israel-pushing-for-a-strike-on-Syria)) ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/216 "2013-09-11T15:04:03Z")
I suspect their immediate concern is chemical weapons washing around in a volatile and unpredicatable war zone with innumerable players looking for an edge. In which case, Putin’s initiative means Israel wins. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/217 "2014-05-28T16:03:43Z")
[Looks like the U.S. might finally be picking a side.](http://www.mail.com/news/politics/2876644-us-nears-decision-training-syrian-rebels.html#.7518-stage-subhero1-1) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama may soon sign off on a project to train and equip moderate Syrian rebels, in an open move that would significantly boost U.S. support to forces who have been asking for three years for military help in their quest to oust President Bashar Assad, administration officials said Tuesday. > > The step would send a limited number of American troops to Jordan to be part of a regional training mission that would instruct carefully vetted members of the Free Syrian Army on tactics, including counterterrorism operations, the officials said. They said Obama has not yet given approval for the initiative, and that there is still internal discussion about its merits and potential risks. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/218 "2014-05-28T18:26:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Looks like the U.S. might finally be picking a side.](http://www.mail.com/news/politics/2876644-us-nears-decision-training-syrian-rebels.html#.7518-stage-subhero1-1) Who are these moderates, they’re usually just as bad as the other side. The best outcome for Syria unfortunately seems to be the Algeria option, or split the religious and ethnic communities into separate states, which is what should of happened in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/219 "2014-05-28T18:34:24Z")
So as soon as they stop fighting each other [for a few weeks](http://www.newsweek.com/rebels-fighting-each-other-syria-al-qaeda-group-wins-major-victory-250623), Obama wants to train some of them in counter-terrorism so they can start fighting each other again, only better. That’s bound to turn out well. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/220 "2014-05-28T18:35:19Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Who are these moderates, they’re usually just as bad as the other side. The best outcome for Syria unfortunately seems to be the Algeria option . . . What is the “Algeria option”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316.md?page=12)