# Who Is Winning In Syria? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316 "2012-10-30T12:33:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/121 "2013-04-27T17:28:46Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Yeah Iraqi Kurdistan is a real hellhole (…oooh oooh let me whip out my eyeroll: :rolleyes:). I’m sure they’re not enjoying any freedom there(…oh fuck more chances to be snarky: :rolleyes:). With its higher standard of living, security, and **excellent relations** with Turkey it sounds so awful. Considering that it was recently invaded by Turkey, you have a rather interesting definition of “excellent relations”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/122 "2013-04-27T17:32:24Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Yeah, I’d think the circumstances of the Kurds constitute one of the better arguments that sometimes you really do need ethnic-homeland states to secure human rights. I think that it would be a terrible idea. Leaving aside how it would cause the government of Turkey and others in the region to react, I don’t think it would be possible to carve out a viable Kurdish state that didn’t have large numbers of non-Kurds living there. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/123 "2013-04-27T17:52:25Z")
After all, the last thing the U.S. wants to do is offend an ally by telling it to grant independence to people under its control. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/124 "2013-04-27T18:05:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > After all, the last thing the U.S. wants to do is offend an ally by telling it to grant independence to people under its control. Heh. That said, I’ve never heard the Palestinians referred to as “mountain Jews” and I suspect if those in the occupied territories were given citizenship like Turkey’s Kurds, things in Israel would change pretty dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/125 "2013-04-27T18:06:21Z")
I’m not talking about the United States at all (though ISWYDT, **Alessan** ). I’m just saying, I don’t see the Kurds, or certain other peoples, becoming secure or free except in some kind of self-determined territory. It’s rather disingenuous and unfair for those of us who either live in such countries already, or whose ethnicities have never been minorities in our states, to say that the Kurds don’t deserve the same. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/126 "2013-04-27T18:14:43Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Heh. > > That said, I’ve never heard the Palestinians referred to as “mountain Jews” and I suspect if those in the occupied territories were given citizenship like Turkey’s Kurds, things in Israel would change pretty dramatically. I suspect you know perfectly well that the “mountain Turks” label is a total sham, indicative of nothing but Turkish dissembling on the issue; also, that Israel will not give citizenship to OT Palestinians precisely because it would dramatically change the terms of Israel’s existence. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/127 "2013-04-27T20:06:59Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Considering that it was recently invaded by Turkey, you have a rather interesting definition of “excellent relations”. A lot has happened in 5 years (not that they were attacking the KRG or its forces in 2008): frequent diplomatic visits between the KRG and Turkey, the proposed pipeline, the other developing energy ties, the ever-growing trade relationship in addition to the energy ties, and Turkey’s tendency to side with the KRG in its disputes with Baghdad. I’ll downgrade it to ‘very good’ or ‘a hell of a lot better than anyone might have predicted given the stereotype of Turkish-Kurdish relations’. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/128 "2013-04-27T20:21:46Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I suspect you know perfectly well that the “mountain Turks” label is a total sham, indicative of nothing but Turkish dissembling on the issue; also, that Israel will not give citizenship to OT Palestinians precisely because it would dramatically change the terms of Israel’s existence. Er yes, my reference to “mountain Jews” was meant as a joke. My point was that you really can’t compare the relationship between Turkey and the Kurds on the one hand and the Israelis and the Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/129 "2013-04-30T14:05:47Z")
So why did obama make his “red line” comment? I hope he just confines himself to talk-there is no way the USA should ever get involved in this mess. Its a Sunni-Shia dispute, and they have to settle their own affairs. Maybe Syria should be broken up? Apportoining varius pieces to Shia, Sunni, Alawite, Christians might be a good way to settle things. Either way, I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/130 "2013-04-30T15:13:37Z")
Syria is “a Sunni-Shia dispute”?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/131 "2013-04-30T16:24:28Z")
What it actually is is part of the ongoing collapse of the Ottoman Empire. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/132 "2013-04-30T17:03:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What it actually is is part of the ongoing collapse of the Ottoman Empire. It’s taking longer than we thought. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/133 "2013-04-30T17:22:38Z")
BTW, it’s interesting to surf Free Republic on the Syria issue – everybody agrees as a matter of course that Obama is handling it the wrong way, but there is no consensus as to what would be the right way, or even as to who the Freepers want to win this war. Some back Assad as a friend-to-Christians and because the rebels include a group aligned with al-Qaeda, others oppose Assad as an ally/puppet of Iran and Hezbollah. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/134 "2013-04-30T18:37:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > BTW, it’s interesting to surf Free Republic on the Syria issue – everybody agrees as a matter of course that Obama is handling it the wrong way, but there is no consensus as to what would be the right way, or even as to who the Freepers want to win this war. Some back Assad as a friend-to-Christians and because the rebels include a group aligned with al-Qaeda, others oppose Assad as an ally/puppet of Iran and Hezbollah. It’s not much better here in Israel (although nobody is blaming Obama yet). We want the war to end now, but we don’t want any of the sides to win. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/135 "2013-04-30T18:47:31Z")
I suspect nobody wants a US intervention either. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/136 "2013-05-16T18:13:53Z")
Turkish PM Erdogan is in Washington to meet with Obama, and, I just saw on CNN, Obama has announced he and Erdogan are in agreement that Syria’s Assad “has to go”. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/137 "2013-05-17T14:48:02Z")
I just read a headline this morning about Russia sending “advanced” missiles to Assad. Assad governs a bunch of maniacs just waiting for their chance to kill on an even wider scale than Assad. Maybe arming Assad and nagging him about human rights is the best course. Arming both sides is fucking ridiculous. Of course, we could just send them a few trillion dollars worth in food. Make them so fat they don’t care about guns and killing each other. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/138 "2013-05-17T17:30:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s not much better here in Israel (although nobody is blaming Obama yet). We want the war to end now, but we don’t want any of the sides to win. Don’t worry, I strongly suspect that, however this ends, none will. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/139 "2013-05-17T19:04:03Z")
This morning, a story talked about Syria consisting of three areas: 1. The Alawite Zone 2. Jihadville 3. Syrian Kurdistan What a mess. Having the US intervene gives me flashbacks to the Lebanese Civil War. 15 years of bloodshed and just barely stable. Had a friend who told me harrowing stories as a kid living in Beirut. As badly as I despise the “polemicide” in the US, it just doesn’t compare to people actually shooting each other. Not worth it. The tribal hate and discrimination they need to come to grips with; we can’t make them like one another. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316/140 "2013-05-18T15:27:32Z")
Which part is the allah akhbar cannibalism part? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-is-winning-in-syria/639316.md?page=8)