I beat you to that in my first post in the thread, but only posted a link to that one. Didn’t figure it would be work-safe here.
He also didn’t want anyone to dwell on the fact that he was turning Egypt into his own personal fiefdom. The good Republican way have been to follow Senate direction in the disposal and management of a new territory, and that invariably meant either turning it into a province with a Governor appointed by the Senate or a appoint a client ruler. He instead, appointed one of his own men as Prefect and started being worshipped a Pharaoh.
It took 3 years after the conquest for the First Settlement to be made, and his direct control of Egypt,Gaul and Syria to be confirmed and he had to make quite a few compromises for that. One of his arguments was that those provinces were under threat, and in case of the later two it was accurate, but the only threat in Egypt was to his income supply.
If he had openly killed Cleopatra, he very well might have been unable to do what he did. Hell, he had to provide for her younger children anyway and find kingdoms for them to rule.
Which is why my own view is that he encouraged her suicide rather than killed her outright.
Actually, aren’t venomous snakes usually even more potent when they’re babies? I swear I’ve heard that before.
Well, before Caesar: Roman Republic. After Caesar - the Julio-Claudian dynasty.
Sounds like a myth to me.
Ah, A follower of Tacitus are we?
The venom may be more potent, but the amount delivered is much smaller.
I learned that at a Sierra Club lecture on rattlesnakes given by a snake expert. He said he’d rather be bitten by a baby one any day.
It’s scorpions where the smaller ones are more dangerous.
Although that might be because the small ones are harder to see, and thus easier to step on.
I remember being told that baby snakes were more dangerous because they did not regulate their discharge, so the amount delivered was greater because they empty all of their … venom pouch? … in a single bite. I have no idea if that is true and I’ve never had cause to learn.
The chronology was: Julius Caesar was assassinated, Octavian, Antony, and Lepidus form an alliance (the Second Triumvirate) to rule Rome, Octavian and Antony have a falling-out (with Lepidus relegated to the sidelines), and Cleopatra gets involved (and ultimately killed) in the resulting civil war.
What I’ve read suggests that it’s because little scorpions rely on venom to subdue their prey while bigger scorpions can physically crush prey in their claws.
Well, I’ll take their word for it. I’m not about to go and conduct an experiment.
No guts, no glory, Guin!
It isn’t. Note two takeaways from that paper :
a) juvenile rattlesnakes can clearly regulate the amount, since they do it by the second run while still juveniles; and
b) before gaining any experience, they inject the same smaller amount into all prey. The myth requires them to go all-in, not be overly cautious.
Thanks for the link. But the issues with snakes and Cleopatra suicide are
- Getting it to bite on command.
- It’s only fatal if the bite occurs at certain points on the body
- It takes hours to take effect, and is very painful, all reports state that she died more or less instantly.
- It probably doesn’t retain sufficient venom to kill 3 fully grown women….though I always doubted that.
The first part is not an issue, scared snakes with no escape route will bite. The slow death bit, for sure. Note that one cobra bite is plenty enough to kill multiple people and snakes usually retain enough venom for multiple injections.
I don’t buy the asp story, myself, I was just noting that full-grown snake size is not a blocker when juveniles are just as deadly.
Is it part of the legend that it also killed a couple of her ladies-in-waiting, or something? I’ve only ever heard of Cleo herself getting the bite.
That’s very interesting. Thank you.
Pretty much every surviving sources states that she was found with two of her handmaidens both of whom had also died in the same manner as their mistress.
Suicide using needles dipped in venom or some other poison makes the most sense and the marks might look similar to a bite. That said, a death in captivity isn’t always suicide or sanctioned execution. Guards and jailers who tire of their current duty have an easy solution available to them.
Octavian with the Asp in the Throne Room