# Who Killed Jesus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 29, 2009, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168 "2009-03-29T07:47:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/322 "2009-03-31T11:53:01Z")
Whoof. I haven’t read all seven pages of this discussion, but I did scroll down a ways and no one had yet referenced the definitive work? > **[Who killed Jesus?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343155/who-killed-jesus)** > > A STAFF REPORT FROM THE STRAIGHT DOPE SCIENCE ADVISORY BOARD ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/323 "2009-03-31T12:13:42Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Whoof. I haven’t read all seven pages of this discussion, but I did scroll down a ways and no one had yet referenced the definitive work? > > [Who killed Jesus? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2011/who-killed-jesus) The OP referenced that article: [QUOTE=Lacunas Quell] with 'nuff said… i will now get to the topic of this thread. Who killed Jesus? \*\*i read the article of the same topic… \*\*and i found it rather interesting and accurate. It brought to mind a sermon i once listened to and i wanted to share it with those who have read or possibly will read, and maybe even those who inspired and wrote the “Who Killed Jesus” article. [/QUOTE] So, shouldn’t this thread be moved to Comments on Staff Reports? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/324 "2009-03-31T12:30:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > First of all, Judas and the pharasees are called devils metaphorically (as, btw is Peter. See Matt. 16:23 and Mark 8:33). There is a difference between Peter and Judas, that being Judas is a actual devil from hell in human body, Peter, before receiving the Holy Spirit, was just trying to follow Jesus as best he could given human effort in a deceptive world. Satan had a foothold in Peter. There is no metaphor, the pharisees are devils from hell (or sons of the devil), as many in power, especially in religious structures are today. There is no difference from today and back then, Jesus’ Word is just as valid today, Jesus wants to set His people free from the guilt priests/ministers try to put on the people attending services. This guilt is not the way Jesus teaches, but it is putting burdens on people they can’t bear - that tactic is from Hell. > [@](#): > > Secondly, regarding Jezebel herself, two points. First of all, she doesn’t really manipulate anyone in the text. The closest she comes to that is to find people who accuse Naboth of blasphemy. 1 Kings 21:25 shows direct manipulation of the King, which is the prime MO of Jezebel, control those in authority. Also use of sorcery against people 1 Kings 19:1-4, which is the use of words to manipulate. Uses witchcraft to enslave nations (Nahum 3:4-7) Masterminds murder (1 Kings 21:5-13) Jezebel comes up many times in scriptures, but is not mentioned by name most of the time. It is a ongoing problem. Demonic manipulation is very subtle, it’s the kind where it makes her look like the one helping, so much so that you thank her for helping you when she is throwing you into prison. > [@](#): > > Secondly, manipulation isn’t really that unusual among queens, or anyone who only has any power because of their personal relationship with someone else. Jezebel comes back many times and is around today usually pairing up with people of great authority. > [@](#): > > Thirdly, she’s not even the worst person in the bible. She’s not even the worst person in the book of Kings. Perhaps Satan is worse, but not by much, IMHO she is the worst figure in the (human) flesh in the Bible, and quite possibly the worst, most dangerous person ever to exist (again in human flesh). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/325 "2009-03-31T16:17:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It might help if you could supply us with a cite that does in fact state this. > And actually, misunderstandings of the laws of thermodynamics pop up in arguments like this all the time. Sir Isaac Newton. Matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. (They can however be changed). Thermonuclear reactions convert part of the matter into different matter, and release energy while doing it. Fusion, fission and stuff. Burning stuff changes compounds into other compounds through rapid oxidation, releasing energy as part of the process. Applying the brakes on your car converts kinetic energy (motion) into thermal energy (heat). In the above examples, nothing is created or destroyed, simply changed to a different form. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/326 "2009-03-31T16:19:30Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > No, no, the big hats are to conceal the gigantic Mars Attacks-style brains. The transmitters are hidden in the robes. Don’t worry, Slim Whitman can save us 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/327 "2009-03-31T16:28:38Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Sir Isaac Newton. > > Matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. (They can however be changed). > > Thermonuclear reactions convert part of the matter into different matter, and release energy while doing it. Fusion, fission and stuff. > > Burning stuff changes compounds into other compounds through rapid oxidation, releasing energy as part of the process. > > Applying the brakes on your car converts kinetic energy (motion) into thermal energy (heat). > > In the above examples, nothing is created or destroyed, simply changed to a different form. Okay, then, how did God create the universe? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/328 "2009-03-31T16:35:22Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Perhaps Satan is worse, but not by much, IMHO she is the worst figure in the (human) flesh in the Bible, and quite possibly the worst, most dangerous person ever to exist (again in human flesh). The Nahum quote refers to the city of Nineveh. The total of Jezebel’s bad acts is that she got people to perjure themselves regarding Nabaoth’s vinyard, and she “killed off the Lord’s prophets”. Compare that to Haman, who “looked for a way to destroy all Mordecai’s people, the Jews, throughout the whole kingdom of Xerxes.” or the Pharoah of the Exodus, who commanded “Every boy that is born you must throw into the Nile, but let every girl live.”" Heck, even compare that to Elijah, who cursed the the land of Israel to make sure “there will be neither dew nor rain in the next few years except at my word”, and slaughtered the prophets of Baal. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/329 "2009-03-31T16:38:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Okay, then, how did God create the universe? I don’t know. A big bang, let there be this, let there be that, the Marvel multiverse and the cosmic cube?. Newton only addresses the physics of things that already exist. If nothing exists (including space/time) then there is no physics as we know it, because it doesn’t exist yet? My brain hurts 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/330 "2009-03-31T18:39:36Z")
> [@Lacunas Quell](#): > > Even IF my faith is wrong, and I live a life serving Jesus only to die and find out that after death all consciousness ends and all I become is a rotting corpse in the ground, what did I lose? If that’s the case, then you’ve lost _everything_. If this life is all we have, and you squander it in pursuit of an imaginary infinite bonus round, then you have squandered everything. Wake up, this is all there is; get the most out of it in the here and now. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/331 "2009-03-31T21:12:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It might help if you could supply us with a cite that does in fact state this. > And actually, misunderstandings of the laws of thermodynamics pop up in arguments like this all the time. It is almost sad that I have to cite this when, in fact, I learned this in grade school science. I thought everyone knew this. “Energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but it can neither be created nor destroyed.” [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_law\_of\_thermodynamics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics) …that’s funny. I remember learning matter couldn’t be created or destroyed either… but I guess there have been changes to some “laws” in the past few years. Ah, yes. Antimatter. Is there concrete proof of naturally occurring antimatter exists or is it it all just **artificially** created in a lab? Of course… considering the fact that many evolutionists have a history of presenting fraudulent findings and materials (which they knew to be fraudulent), it wouldn’t surprise me if antimatter was still just a substance someone dreamed up for a science fiction novel… especially since I have yet to find a creationist’s view point on antimatter, but I’ll keep looking ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/332 "2009-03-31T21:13:20Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Jesus was actually an extraterrestrial and the Vatican is concealing this fact? Well yeah. You see, Mary was abducted by aliens and impregnated with genetically modified DNA. While the space craft was monitoring the situation from geosychronious orbit over Bethlehem, the Magi were able to triangulate its position. Meanwhile, some shepherds had a close encounter, and naturally identified the aliens as angels. You gotta admit, that scenario is at least as plausible as any spun by **Kanicbird** or **LQ**. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/333 "2009-03-31T21:18:33Z")
> [@Lacunas Quell](#): > > … considering the fact that many evolutionists have a history of presenting fraudulent findings and materials (which they knew to be fraudulent)… What _percentage_ of evolutionists would you say have done that. And I certainly hope you have more to cite than Piltdown Man or the arthritic Neandertal. Creationists act like those are the only hominid specimens ever unearthed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/334 "2009-03-31T21:26:20Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Well yeah. You see, Mary was abducted by aliens and impregnated with genetically modified DNA. While the space craft was monitoring the situation from geosychronious orbit over Bethlehem, the Magi were able to triangulate its position. Meanwhile, some shepherds had a close encounter, and naturally identified the aliens as angels. > > You gotta admit, that scenario is at least as plausible as any spun by **Kanicbird** or **LQ**. Actually, it’s much more plausible. Still ridiculously unlikely, but more plausible. It doesn’t violate physical laws, as far as I can tell. > [@Lacunas Quell](#): > > Is there concrete proof of naturally occurring antimatter exists or is it it all just **artificially** created in a lab? Yes. Various energetic events, like matter falling into a black hole can create it. As can random particle collisions, and so on. > [@Lacunas Quell](#): > > Of course… considering the fact that many evolutionists have a history of presenting fraudulent findings and materials (which they knew to be fraudulent), it wouldn’t surprise me if antimatter was still just a substance someone dreamed up for a science fiction novel… especially since I have yet to find a creationist’s view point on antimatter, but I’ll keep looking And would you care to provide some examples of “evolutionists” doing that ? Who weren’t promptly condemned by their colleagues ? And you are again demonstrating you don’t know what you are talking about. Antimatter isn’t some wild eyed idea; it’s been known to exist for decades. The science came before the science fiction. And the idea that the entire community of physicists would fake the existence of antimatter for no apparent reason is silly. As for the “creationist’s view point on antimatter”; since as a creationist they are by definition either ignorant or a fool, their opinion isn’t worth much. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/335 "2009-03-31T21:31:40Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Well yeah. You see, Mary was abducted by aliens and impregnated with genetically modified DNA. While the space craft was monitoring the situation from geosychronious orbit over Bethlehem, the Magi were able to triangulate its position. Meanwhile, some shepherds had a close encounter, and naturally identified the aliens as angels. {raises hand} I know! I know! Jesus was a Predator, and Danny Glover killed him 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/336 "2009-03-31T21:40:44Z")
> [@Lacunas Quell](#): > > Of course… considering the fact that many evolutionists have a history of presenting fraudulent findings and materials (which they knew to be fraudulent),. . . Oh, goody. The old, Them evulll evilutionists are liars. bit of nonsense. If you want to line up the “liars” on the side of evolution against the liars on the side of creationism, we are not going to be able to see the scientists for the anti-scientists. Haeckel fudged some pictures to make a point in which he believed–and his ideas never made it into mainstram science despite his efforts. Piltdown was a hoax perpetrated on a (gullible) scientist and was never accepted by mainstream scientists. On the other hand, we have Ham and Gish who have been compelled to admit “errors” in public and then gone on to repeat the errors as soon as the scientist was no longer in the room and a few dozen more cranks who do not appear to recognize the truth when they trip over it. (Not to mention Hovind who employs the same tactics–if less successfully when he is trying to cheat on his taxes.) ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/337 "2009-03-31T21:45:04Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > So, God didn’t create the Earth? Or did he create it but wasn’t a good enough engineer to make it safe. Maybe it should get recalled to fix the defects. > > I’m not sure the people said that, but the priests sure did. If not them, then their parents. > Since no one is perfect, the priests can always find a reason to blame the victims. If some who were far more evil lived to a ripe old age and died rich - well, God works in mysterious ways. > > But there is progress here. You seem to accept that the Earth is very old, and also admit that the story about God making the Sun stand still for Joshua is just a myth - because it involves God interfering with nature. Now if you’d just apply that same logic to the rest of the Bible, we’d be getting somewhere. You are twisting my words. When I said “God doesn’t interfere with nature” I meant “God tends to let things happen as they should”. I never said He didn’t intervene. Sometimes there are other factors involved. I do believe that God parted the Red Sea for Moses, made the EARTH stand still for Joshua (it is because the Earth rotates on an axis that causes the Sun to rise and set), and I believe the other accounts of Divine intervention that are recorded. I never said God doesn’t allow supernatural occurrences. God doesn’t interfere with the way He intended things to be. God, being omniscient, and knowing before hand that Joshua would need the sun for longer than the sun is usually out, could have intended a (super)natural occurrence to cause the earth to stop (more likely extremely slow down) the rotation of the Earth. This could have happened naturally within the laws He created. Besides, God, being the Creator of the universe and all things, has every right to interfere or intervene as He sees fit. He isn’t going to stop volcanoes from erupting or the earth from shaking unless He has a really good reason. He created those events for a purpose, and there is purpose and reason behind those events. I would like to retract what I said and rephrase it because I realize I was typing before thinking. “God tends to let things happen as they should and rarely interferes with nature, but God can, and does, allow supernatural occurrences as He sees fit” ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/338 "2009-03-31T21:47:07Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Whoof. I haven’t read all seven pages of this discussion, but I did scroll down a ways and no one had yet referenced the definitive work? > > [Who killed Jesus? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2011/who-killed-jesus) I believe I mentioned in the original post that this thread was inspired by that article. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/339 "2009-03-31T21:47:26Z")
> [@Lacunas Quell](#): > > “God tends to let things happen as they should and rarely interferes with nature, but God can, and does, allow supernatural occurrences as He sees fit” You are mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/340 "2009-03-31T21:53:48Z")
> [@Lacunas Quell](#): > > You are twisting my words. When I said “God doesn’t interfere with nature” I meant “God tends to let things happen as they should”. I never said He didn’t intervene. … > I would like to retract what I said and rephrase it because I realize I was typing before thinking. > > “God tends to let things happen as they should and rarely interferes with nature, but God can, and does, allow supernatural occurrences as He sees fit” I have to take issue with this. it is far too much (identical) to too many other people making claims of the same type. \*It can be either a God miracle or a natural occurence. Which it is, depends solely on how it will help my argument. I will say what was a direct inteverention and what wasn’t. \* How about the big tsunami that hit the Pacific? Was that God, or was it nature? SOME people say it was God, punishing the “bad guys”. How about the hurricane that trashed New Orleans? Again, SOME people say that was God again. For that matter, why didn’t he protect the good people? After all, he saved one family even during the destruction of Sodom and Ghamorra. Maybe it was an off day. No. It’s a cop out. It’s too easy. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168/341 "2009-03-31T21:54:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Okay, then, how did God create the universe? The same thing could be asked about evolution. At least those who believe in God recognize that God can do all things, and nothing is impossible for God, and with God all things are possible. To answer your question, though. God said “Let there be light” and there was light. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-jesus/491168.md?page=18)