# Who killed President Kennedy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481 "2004-12-01T13:26:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/21 "2004-12-01T19:55:10Z")
I’ve never done well at basketball, and I’ve always been more of a pistolero than a Quigley due to near-sightedness, but I’m not having any particularly hard time with getting a killing shot _in the game._ Maybe harder than a freethrow, but not by much. But that just getting “a killing shot.” I have yet to accurately duplicate Oswald’s shot sequence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/22 "2004-12-01T19:56:25Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Can the shooters among us put the difficulty of the shot in terms I might understand? How about layup, freethrow, 3 point shot, or half court shot. From what I gather, the distance is not a big deal for those that can shoot, but just how easy was it? I’m guessing free throw difficulty. In other SDMB discussions of the topic, I’ve seen shooters mock Oswald for missing Kennedy twice before he killed him. Perhaps that puts it into perspective a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![jgroub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b77776/32.png) [@jgroub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jgroub)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/23 "2004-12-01T20:03:12Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I appreciate the annual remembrance and am angry when it is missed, but that’s because Nov 22nd is my parents’ wedding anniversary and I depended on the annual reminders (“Next Thursday is the 28th anniversary of the assasination of President Kennedy”) to get a present in time. For me, it’s just the opposite. My mom was born on 11/21, so every year, when it gets to be the assassination anniversary, I always remember that I forgot to send her a card. D’oh! :smack: (Actually, that only happens really rarely.) Sorry to disagree with all you fine folks, but IIRC, there was a House Assassinations Committee investigation about this (& MLK) in 1978. As part of that investigation, they located a police transmissions dictabelt (a recording) from one of the motorcycle cops. It turned out that one of the guys riding alongside the limo had problems Again, IIRC, based on the analysis of that recording, the Committee concluded that there was a very good chance that there was a second shooter from the grassy knoll. Others can do the cite checking; I’m at work and also heavily involved in my own thread. 🙂 So LHO, yeah sure. But who was the other guy? And unless it’s two lone nuts (a nut duo?), who coordinated them and got them together? And who paid for it all? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/24 "2004-12-01T20:03:49Z")
Actually I should say failing to kill him twice before succeeding; his second shot did hit Kennedy in the throat. Back to the laundry list of reasons to think Oswald did it, there’s also the fact that he tried to kill someone else - General Edwin Walker - a few days before the Kennedy assassination. ---
**Author:** ![jgroub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b77776/32.png) [@jgroub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jgroub)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/25 "2004-12-01T20:15:15Z")
Oops! That’ll teach me to actually do work while I’m posting. To finish off that sentence, one of the motorcycle cops’ radio mike sometimes got stuck in the on (talk) position. The dictabelt recorded the assassination. They found a 4th gunshot on the belt. Since we all know that the Mannliccher-Carcano can’t fire 4 times in the time required, that meant another shooter. Acoustical analysis (they shut down Dealey Plaza to do this) showed that to replicate the sound heard on the belt, the shot had to come from the grassy knoll. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/26 "2004-12-01T20:27:00Z")
Wrong-o. Check the McAdams link. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/27 "2004-12-01T20:29:13Z")
[This’ll take you right there.](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/acoustic.htm) This was torn to shreds in the Posner book as well. ---
**Author:** ![Gamaliel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gamaliel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gamaliel)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/28 "2004-12-01T20:32:09Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > I was a long time believer in conspiracies of various kinds but then I read Posners _Case Closed_ and felt like an idiot. > > Mr Oswald did it. All on his own. I was pretty much the same way. Now conspiracy nuts literally enrage me because I fell for it for so long, but it’s my own fault for not looking at the issue critically. The conspiracy nuts lie about the simplest thing - like the positions of JFK and Connolley in the limo - to throw up a smoke screen, and when people see the smoke, they think there’s fire. The forensic evidence is overwheliming. Oswald was seen in the window with a rifle. His fingerprints are on the window and the rifle. There’s a picture of him with the rifle. We know where, when, and how he bought it. People have been convicted and executed with far less evidence. The dictabelt is nonsense. There is zero evidence for the HSCA conclusion besides the dictabelt, and the dictabelt only holds up if you assume 1) the noises recorded are shots and 2) it is a recording of Deleay Plaza. However, voices discovered on the tape indicate that it is a recording of at least a full minute after the shots and possible not in the plaza at all. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/29 "2004-12-01T20:32:22Z")
> [@jgroub](#): > > To finish off that sentence, one of the motorcycle cops’ radio mike sometimes got stuck in the on (talk) position. The dictabelt recorded the assassination. They found a 4th gunshot on the belt. Since we all know that the Mannliccher-Carcano can’t fire 4 times in the time required, that meant another shooter. I saw this completely debunked on the History Channel’s run through of the whole assassination conspiricy theory. It was well done and they gave both sides the chance to talk, but the conspiricy side came off looking like nutters when the actual facts were presented, or computer model simulations were used showing the exact position of your motor cycle cop with the open mike. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Can the shooters among us put the difficulty of the shot in terms I might understand? How about layup, freethrow, 3 point shot, or half court shot. From what I gather, the distance is not a big deal for those that can shoot, but just how easy was it? I’m guessing free throw difficulty. For a trained sharpshooter this shot would be a layup…I don’t see how you could miss to be honest with a scoped hunting rifle. Even for an amature I’m betting that, assuming you could opperate the gun at all of course and that the scope was properly mounted, anyone could make the shot. With iron sights, to a professional this shot would probably still be a lay up…or say a clear shot from the paint. An amature though would have a lot more trouble with iron sights…say a freethrow or even a 3 point shot. BTW, I was barely rated markman in my basic training, but I’ve done some hunting with rifles in my time…FWIW. Sorry, but I have never seen anything even remotely compelling about this conspiricy theory to make me think it was plausable in any way…and certainly not after the avalanche of computer simulations, forensic evidence, review of the actual footage and such I’ve seen lately. To me this is actually LESS plausable than the whole alien space craft at area 51 or Rosswell alien crash…and only marginally more so that the alien autopsy tape. 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![jgroub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b77776/32.png) [@jgroub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jgroub)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/30 "2004-12-01T20:33:43Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > [This’ll take you right there.](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/acoustic.htm) > > This was torn to shreds in the Posner book as well. Oops, didn’t know that. Sorry! :wally I’ll just shut up now and go back to debating Marley23 (referring to Scrooge’s partner of Bob?) back in my own thread. Carry on! ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/31 "2004-12-01T20:36:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Interestingly, there’s a piece of software out there called “JFK Reloaded” which is essentially a first-person shooter game from the sixth floor of the textbook depository. The software authors claim it’s an accurate model and if so, shooting Kennedy was not an especially difficult feat for a ex-marine (not army) like Oswald. In fact, the movie JFK tries to make the point that the “easier” shot is when the motorcade was coming up Houston street, toward the depository (and suggests the real sixth-floor shooter -not Oswald- was waiting until the car was on Elm street and bracketed by the grassy knoll sniper). The animation in the JFK Reloaded suggests otherwise, as a head-on shot puts Kennedy behind Connelly, the (Secret Service agent?) man in the front passenger seat and the windshield. Shooting Kennedy in the back as the car moves away is much easier, since Oswald has an unobstructed view of the back of Kennedy’s head and upper torso. I have JFK Reloaded. It’s an interesting game, and quite addictive. It’s true that it’s much easier to kill Kennedy as the limo is heading away from your view. It also slows down a little bit, I think, as it approaches the overpass. I haven’t been able to score more than 400. Right now the top scorer in the competition has 750 or so (if he isn’t unseated by Feb. 22 he’ll win 10,000 dollars, possibly more depending on how many people have purchased the game.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/32 "2004-12-01T20:39:03Z")
> [@jgroub](#): > > I’ll just shut up now and go back to debating Marley23 (referring to Scrooge’s partner of Bob?) back in my own thread. Named for Bob. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/33 "2004-12-01T20:57:05Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > I haven’t been able to score more than 400. Right now the top scorer in the competition has 750 or so (if he isn’t unseated by Feb. 22 he’ll win 10,000 dollars, possibly more depending on how many people have purchased the game.) I made 437 once, but so far seem stuck at 400 right alongside you. ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/34 "2004-12-01T21:26:46Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Lee Oswald, a trained army sharpshooter and communist defector, shot JFK. Agreed. > [@SentientMeat](#): > > Alone. > Any “strange” aspect you care to name is explored in great detail on the McAdams site. Some people might argue it’s a tad fishy that a terminally ill mobster, whose monetary problems disappeared over night, can just walk up to someone, who’s the prime suspect in an assassination of the president of the USA, and shoot that person. But that’s just tin-foil hattery. There’s no conspiracy and there’s nothing to see here. Move along, people. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/35 "2004-12-01T21:36:51Z")
Ruby was not “terminally ill” when he shot Oswald. He did not become sick with the cancer that killed him until after he was sent to prison. It’s well-documented that security in the Dallas police HQ was very, very loose. Ruby was a frequent visitor, so none of the cops would have thought anything was unusual by seeing him there. Besides, if you’re suggesting that the Dallas police were part of the conspiracy or coverup, that really is tinfoil hat material unless you’ve got some evidence that it’s so. And what “monetary problems” are you referring to, and what makes you say they “disappeared overnight”? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/36 "2004-12-01T21:53:06Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > the other guy John Connally ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/37 "2004-12-01T22:10:49Z")
Oswald shot him the first time. However, time travelers stopped him from shooting him and then discovered that the country would be in bad shape if he hadn’t been killed so they went back to stop themselves from stopping Oswald. However, this created a new set of variables and Oswald misses so they had to go convince Kennedy that he had to go back in time and shoot himself from the grassy knoll. I saw it on a TV show and TV wouldn’t lie. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/38 "2004-12-01T22:32:48Z")
> [@Ribenafan](#): > > Who REALLY killed JFK? Whilst i dont believe it was aliens or he faked it, i do think that there was a conspiracy of sorts surrounding the assasination. What does everyone think about the grassy knoll, Hoover and the FBI, President Diem of South Vietnam’s assasination weeks earlier, civil rights, the Cubans, etc. Also, what about the rumor that all the files concerned wont be able to be made public for 75 years, so all concerned will be long gone? While i dont think no one will know for certain there must be some pretty good ideas. Ranging from super-conspiracy nuts to conservative realists. JELLO BIAFRA did. He was looking for a cool named for his band and decided on Dead Kennedys, and though there were a couple, he needed at least four. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/39 "2004-12-01T22:39:13Z")
Looks like my suicide theory isn’t going to be too popular here 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481/40 "2004-12-01T22:44:10Z")
Perhaps a slight hijack, but I’ve always wondered this. Why did Ruby kill Oswald. Was he just upset the President was killed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-killed-president-kennedy/277481.md?page=3)