# "Who knows? Maybe just believing in God causes God to exist." **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674 "2006-11-09T05:20:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/1 "2006-11-09T05:20:43Z")
**KILL THE WISE ONE! KILL THE WISE ONE!** But seriously, does that idea, as stated, have merit? ---
**Author:** ![iano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@iano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iano)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/2 "2006-11-09T05:28:40Z")
To the extent that the speaker expects no manifestation of the existance and is satisfied with the gained feeling that God does in fact exist, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/3 "2006-11-09T05:31:33Z")
Does that work for money? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/4 "2006-11-09T05:37:19Z")
It doesn’t work for beer. ---
**Author:** ![mrklutz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@mrklutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrklutz)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/5 "2006-11-09T05:49:27Z")
To the same extent that Santa Claus exists because little kids believe in him, sure. Not exactly the kind of dignified station most people would desire for god, though, I’d think. ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/6 "2006-11-09T06:54:20Z")
I have always said to my Atheist friends, “why not believe in God, what possible bad could it do? I mean, if you die and there is no God, then that’s it, you were right. But if there happens to be a God and you die not believing in him, then you’re fucked. So, what’s it gonna hurt to believe in him? Only good things can come out of it.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/7 "2006-11-09T06:58:28Z")
[QUOTE=diggleblop] I have always said to my Atheist friends, “why not believe in God, what possible bad could it do? I mean, if you die and there is no God, then that’s it, you were right. But if there happens to be a God and you die not believing in him, then you’re fucked. So, what’s it gonna hurt to believe in him? Only good things can come out of it.” [/QUOTE] Do a search on the SDMB for “pascal\* AND wager”. There are more than a few flaws with the premise. On the other hand, the OP’s thought certainly worked for Ka the Appalling. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/8 "2006-11-09T07:09:18Z")
[Small Gods](http://www.lspace.org/books/synopses/small-gods.html) – [Terry Pratchett](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Pratchett) . From the article (this is not a quote from the book): > [@](#): > > It has already been mentioned that belief is a powerful force on the Discworld. Sufficient quantities of belief can distort reality, bringing into existence the focus of that belief. This is how Discworld Gods are created: people believe in them, and their power grows accordingly. Gods with no believers, however…they are the small gods, shadows of deities, mere whispers in the wind crying out for belief. > > There are quite a lot of them. Don’t you always know he’s already thought of everything and \*\*\*parodied \*\*\*it, too? ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/9 "2006-11-09T07:35:37Z")
[QUOTE=diggleblop] I have always said to my Atheist friends, “why not believe in God, what possible bad could it do? I mean, if you die and there is no God, then that’s it, you were right. But if there happens to be a God and you die not believing in him, then you’re fucked. So, what’s it gonna hurt to believe in him? Only good things can come out of it.” [/QUOTE] Not really fucked, remember God is a forgiving God. So whether you believe or not the situation is a win-win one ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/10 "2006-11-09T07:40:38Z")
[QUOTE=diggleblop] I have always said to my Atheist friends, “why not believe in God, what possible bad could it do? I mean, if you die and there is no God, then that’s it, you were right. But if there happens to be a God and you die not believing in him, then you’re fucked. So, what’s it gonna hurt to believe in him? Only good things can come out of it.” [/QUOTE] And then you wake up after death surrounded by angry gods with pointy sticks, the one in front saying “We’ll show you what we think of Mr Clever around here !” Yes, it’s a paraphrase from memory of Terry Pratchett ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/11 "2006-11-09T09:14:16Z")
[QUOTE=diggleblop] I have always said to my Atheist friends, “why not believe in God…” [/QUOTE] Exactly _ **how** _ could they follow this advice? How does one arbitrarily choose to start believing in something and what would be the merit and veracity of ‘belief’ so actioned? In other words, how is your suggestion useful in any real way? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/12 "2006-11-09T09:24:12Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] Not really fucked, remember God is a forgiving God. [/QUOTE] Your god might be. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/13 "2006-11-09T09:52:00Z")
My god just _hates_ it when people believe in him, so I try not to. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/14 "2006-11-09T10:28:23Z")
[QUOTE=diggleblop] I have always said to my Atheist friends, “why not believe in God, what possible bad could it do? I mean, if you die and there is no God, then that’s it, you were right. But if there happens to be a God and you die not believing in him, then you’re fucked. So, what’s it gonna hurt to believe in him? Only good things can come out of it.” [/QUOTE] You should remember what happened to the prophets of Baal. :eek: What if your God commands you to sacrifice your eldest son to him? Do you obey? Is that an example of ‘good things’? :rolleyes: As for believing in a pathologically shy God, who will punish me for infinity, even though He knows he made me with a scientific inquiring mind… …nah. Stuff Him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/15 "2006-11-09T11:05:24Z")
For the moment it strikes me as more fun to ignore the part about trying to analyze what kind of force is inherent in belief and what it might be able to accomplish, and move on to what kind of God we’d likely end up with were it feasible. Well, taking small steps, such a God couldn’t very well be the creator of the universe, because before there was anything, there was no one to believe. Such a God could not be beyond mortal understanding, because he/she/it would be conceived entirely within the believers’ consciousness. Such a God would seem, in fact, to be incapable of autonomy, let alone omnipotence and omniscience, because along with belief that there _is_ a God comes a ton of beliefs about what God is _like_; what he wants, what he will and won’t do and has and has not done, and a lot of these beliefs are going to be contradictory and cancel each other out. Or each single believer gets his/her own God, but that’s like saying that because of individual differences in perception there are as many universes as there are people, which (for me) starts to dilute the concept below the point of significant meaning. Also, if we create God ourselves through our own beliefs, why do some religions have an injunction against idolatry? It seems to me, finally, that whether or not belief _can_ create a God, that it’s probably not what happened in our case. We’re a race of wishful thinkers, and lazy to boot: we’d be happy to believe in Gods who take much better care of us, and require much less of us, and we’d certainly have done it by now. If humanity as a whole could have any Gods we were willing to believe in, we’d be a lot more self-indulgent about it. Plus, if _belief_ were what causes God, s/he would certainly appear before us regularly, if only because it’s much easier for people to believe what they can see. If we’re going to substitute “faith” for “belief” and repeat the question, I still vote no, partly for the above reasons and partly because the first glimmer of faith would be (since cause precedes effect) _false_, and I reject any God reliant on a lie for his/her/its existence. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/16 "2006-11-09T13:11:05Z")
[QUOTE=diggleblop] I have always said to my Atheist friends, “why not believe in God, what possible bad could it do? I mean, if you die and there is no God, then that’s it, you were right. But if there happens to be a God and you die not believing in him, then you’re fucked. So, what’s it gonna hurt to believe in him? Only good things can come out of it.” [/QUOTE] This is stupid. What if someone from another religion made the same statement to you? That all you have to do is believe his religion, because his god is not forgiving but your god is. So if you are right, then it’s okay, your god will forgive you. But if he is right, then you’re fucked because his god will not forgive you for believing something else or worshipping a different way. Dont assume that there are only two choices, _atheism_ or _christianity_. (I’m assuming you’re Christian) There are way more options out there than that, and your religion sounds just a stupid and ridiculous as any of the dozens and dozens of beliefs out there. Why should yours be the default choice for an atheist??? ---
**Author:** ![pauliusthegod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a587f6/32.png) [@pauliusthegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pauliusthegod)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/17 "2006-11-09T13:32:30Z")
the difference between faith and reality this: faith in something may affect you if you believe in it enough. reality will affect you regardless of whether or not you believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/18 "2006-11-09T13:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bear\_Nenno] Dont assume that there are only two choices, _atheism_ or _christianity_. (I’m assuming you’re Christian) There are way more options out there than that, and your religion sounds just a stupid and ridiculous as any of the dozens and dozens of beliefs out there. Why should yours be the default choice for an atheist??? [/QUOTE] In fact, given the large number of polytheistic religions out there, it may well be fair to say, that upon that backdrop the difference between Christianity and atheism boils down to the atheist believing in one god fewer than the Christian does… ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/19 "2006-11-09T14:37:27Z")
Now, Noone, the atheist might believe in three fewer gods. Be fair. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674/20 "2006-11-09T14:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] It doesn’t work for beer. [/QUOTE] I hear it does work for sex. Sort of. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-knows-maybe-just-believing-in-god-causes-god-to-exist/379674.md?page=2)