# Who, Like Joe Paterno, Has Suffered Posthumous Disgrace? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 2, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124 "2012-08-02T00:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/41 "2012-08-04T04:44:27Z")
After Bing Crosby’s death, family members started telling stories about how he beat his kids. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/42 "2012-08-04T04:58:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s what is called “Presentism”= judging the heroes of the past by the standards of today. But that’s why it really isn’t wise to look at them as heroes in the first place. They weren’t. In general, the American worship of the founding fathers is ridiculous. I like your point though… You mean JFK didn’t feed his family organic food??? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/43 "2012-08-04T05:00:55Z")
Some of the stuff that has come out [after Peter Sellers died paints](http://www.cracked.com/funny-2139-peter-sellers/)him as a gigantic, world class rageaholic asshole who was feared and hated by his family and associates. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/44 "2012-08-04T05:10:22Z")
I vote for Thomas Jefferson. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/45 "2012-08-04T05:21:45Z")
Does Joseph Stalin count? Kind of in the same vein as the already-mentioned Hitler. Sure, they were despised outside of their own countries long before their deaths. But they had such iron control over their countries, their own mass media, and by extension their own reputations that they were practically worshiped until later administrations (or invading armies) let some of the truth leak out. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/46 "2012-08-04T11:22:14Z")
My recollection is that during his lifetime, JFK wasn’t widely revered outside the Catholic Church. He was liked and disliked in a manner not drastically different from our current President. Only posthumously was he regarded, for a time, as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Aside from public knowledge of the horndogging (add me to the so-what camp), I’d say the main reason JFK’s rep has diminished over the past 40 years or so is that there wasn’t much to support it to begin with. What he has is image - the whole Camelot thing, that he and his family were in power when they were still young and beautiful, and due to his assassination he will always be young and handsome in our minds - and a pretty thin list of accomplishments. If JFK were still alive today, he’d be 95 years old. ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/47 "2012-08-04T11:54:29Z")
Who was that Olympic gold winning female athlete who later died in a car accident and turned out to be male? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/48 "2012-08-04T17:16:48Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > After Bing Crosby’s death, family members started telling stories about how he beat his kids. A son of his first wife said this. Children of his second wife, Katherine, have never said any such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/49 "2012-08-04T18:17:19Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > A son of his first wife said this. Children of his second wife, Katherine, have never said any such thing. [According to the wiki page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bing_Crosby), 3 of his 4 sons from his first marriage said he was abusive. Gary, the eldest, made the claim in a “tell-all” book, and two of his brothers backed him up. The 4th, also the youngest, agreed that he used corporal punishment, but was not abusive. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/50 "2012-08-04T22:22:13Z")
Trofim Lysenko. Nobody really likes him anymore. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/51 "2012-08-05T01:14:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Sigmund Freud; his reputation has taken a nosedive since his death. > [@antonio107](#): > > Has it? We study Freudian theories while doing cultural theory stuff; it’s dated, sure, but it laid the framework for a lot of the hard science psychology that came after it. I didn’t know that he was outright despised or reviled by anyone in or outside of psychology, unless I’m missing something… Just a guess,but I think Der Trihs is referring to Siggy’s Cocaine use,hence the “nosedive” comment. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/52 "2012-08-05T01:18:54Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > Just a guess,but I think Der Trihs is referring to Siggy’s Cocaine use,hence the “nosedive” comment. To be honest, I never even thought of that. I figured it was about his explanations of adult behavior resulting from childhood parental relationships, which have pretty much all been trashed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/53 "2012-08-05T02:31:17Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > My recollection is that during his lifetime, JFK wasn’t widely revered outside the Catholic Church. He was liked and disliked in a manner not drastically different from our current President. Only posthumously was he regarded, for a time, as the greatest thing since sliced bread. > > Aside from public knowledge of the horndogging (add me to the so-what camp), I’d say the main reason JFK’s rep has diminished over the past 40 years or so is that there wasn’t much to support it to begin with. What he has is image - the whole Camelot thing, that he and his family were in power when they were still young and beautiful, and due to his assassination he will always be young and handsome in our minds - and a pretty thin list of accomplishments. > > If JFK were still alive today, he’d be 95 years old. True. A lot of JFKs greatness was really the potential for greatness almost everyone saw. Whether or not he would have been actually great after two terms is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/54 "2012-08-05T03:31:06Z")
Bess Truman - [Apparently an over the top anti-semite.](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1761769/posts) > [@](#): > > The dark side of Truman’s attitude toward Jews was very much a family affair. In his book Confessions of a White House Ghostwriter, James Humes, who penned speeches for five presidents, related a little-known but highly revealing story he heard from the prominent impresario David Susskind. > > Years after Truman left office, Susskind was working with the former president on a television documentary. Wrote Humes: > > Susskind said that each morning he would arrive at Truman’s house at Independence [Missouri]. He would wait on the porch on a cold February day while Mrs. Truman went to inform her husband of his arrival. After about the fourth morning, he asked the president in his walk why he was never asked inside. > > “You’re a Jew, David, and no Jew has ever been in the house.” > > A nonplussed Susskind replied, “I am amazed that you who recognized Israel and championed the integration of the army would say such a thing!” > > “David,” he explained, “this is not the White House – it’s the Wallace [Bess Truman’s maiden name] house. Bess runs it, and there’s never been a Jew inside the house in her or her mother’s lifetime.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/55 "2012-08-05T16:52:07Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > That and he fabricated having access and interviewing Eisenhower. Eisenhower’s papers keepers have detailed records of whom he met and when, and Ambrose’s stuff does not match up. It may be that they never show any meetings/interviews as I recall. > > That said, Ambrose plagarized sections, not whole chapters. He was an entertaining writer. He did meet with Eisenhower several times. There is dispute as to how many times it happened. A lot of his plagiarism was improperly citing source material. For instance in Wild Blue he did footnote his sources but did not use proper quotes. Not great but I still enjoy his books. And it doesn’t meet the criteria in the OP because a lot of the accusations came out before his death and he was able to try and defend himself. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/56 "2012-08-06T14:20:37Z")
Margaret Sanger. The anti-abortion crowd has tried to turn her into a raging racist. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/57 "2012-08-06T14:41:15Z")
Liberace, who won two court cases against newspapers who claimed he was gay, and then died of AIDS. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124/58 "2012-08-06T16:14:05Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Liberace, who won two court cases against newspapers who claimed he was gay, and then died of AIDS. That doesn’t necessarily mean he was gay, but unless my memory is wildly innacurate, it’s extremely hard to find anybody who doubted this, then or now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-like-joe-paterno-has-suffered-posthumous-disgrace/630124.md?page=2)