# Who Liver in Ireland, Before The Celts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 7, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396 "2008-03-07T01:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/1 "2008-03-07T01:20:48Z")
Ireland was inhabited for a long time…in between the end of the last Ice Age (and the arrival of the Celtic people) who lived there? Did they intermarry with the Celts, or were they wiped out? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/2 "2008-03-07T01:22:05Z")
Liver in Ireland? Is that some sort of drunken Irishman joke? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/3 "2008-03-07T01:23:08Z")
Everybody in Ireland has a liver, more or less. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/4 "2008-03-07T01:30:48Z")
Liver and potatos? I shudder at the very thought. Although, speaking of potatos, with all those damn potatos how come the Irish didn’t invent vodka? ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/5 "2008-03-07T02:00:08Z")
Do you want the historic answer or the mythological answer? I’m going from memory, so I might skip someone. The bronze-age saw several groups, the [Beaker People](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture#Ireland.7FUNIQ3d4b608b1ebe9d89-nowiki-0000008D-QINU.7F26.7FUNIQ3d4b608b1ebe9d89-nowiki-0000008E-QINU.7F) among the most recent. They coincide with the collapse of the monolithic culture (Newgrange and Knowth are thought to have fallen into disrepair about this time). I don’t know that there is a clean line between the various peoples, slow immigrations (of people and/or knowledge) gradually changed the cultures. Mythologically, the Tuatha Dé Danann were displaced by the Milesians, who are generally believed to be early Celts. Check out Ireland in Prehistory by Michael Herity and George Eogan, if you happen upon it. I think Eogan has a good book on Knowth, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/6 "2008-03-07T02:20:21Z")
I only like chicken livers. With a light ale please. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/7 "2008-03-07T02:48:38Z")
No no no, you’ve got it all wrong. The question is about **Who** Liver. AFAIK, that substance did not come into existence until the 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/8 "2008-03-07T03:00:26Z")
Or is it Wholiver, which gave way to the more common name Oliver. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/9 "2008-03-07T09:48:51Z")
[QUOTE=blondebear] No no no, you’ve got it all wrong. The question is about **Who** Liver. AFAIK, that substance did not come into existence until the 1960s. [/QUOTE] Yep, and it sure as hell didn’t make it out of the 60’s, either. Si ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/10 "2008-03-07T09:50:11Z")
Guys, let’s be serious here. The OP presents a perfectly reasonable question, which just happens to contain a simple typographical error. There’s no reason we can’t simply answer his question like mature adults. So in answer to the OP, while The Who did perform live in Ireland on several occasions, there’s no record of them opening for The Celts. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/11 "2008-03-07T09:59:00Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Although, speaking of potatos, with all those damn potatos how come the Irish didn’t invent vodka? [/QUOTE] I think they did/do make moonshine from potatoes - it’s just that they don’t export the stuff - they drink it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/12 "2008-03-07T10:41:22Z")
[Even Wikipedia is vague on the subject](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts#Britain_and_Ireland), but comes down on the side of the Celts mixing with and absorbing the “ancient peoples” rather than exterminating them. There seem to be some pre-Celtic place names still in use, surprisingly. Doesn’t Who liver require a nice Chianti? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/13 "2008-03-07T10:43:23Z")
Wait, I thought it was open to debate whether the Irish were actual Celts, as opposed to picking up Celtic languages via trade. Am I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/14 "2008-03-07T10:47:03Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I think they did/do make moonshine from potatoes - it’s just that they don’t export the stuff - they drink it. [/QUOTE] Is that what gives the Irish liver problems, then? I thought it was just the draught beer! ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/15 "2008-03-07T11:06:02Z")
[Poitín](http://www.thestill.net/html/story.htm) ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/16 "2008-03-07T13:17:33Z")
Certainly the partial answer to the OP is the same people who live there now [at least in the West](http://www.insideireland.com/sample19.htm) . I think though that in a larger GQ way anyone who wants to say X displaced Y “people” in most cases, in Europe are going to be disappointed. Most places are like Ulster where [the populations](http://web.unife.it/progetti/genetica/Giorgio/PDFfiles/ejhg2002.pdf) are [pretty much genetically indistinct](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/science/06brits.html) at this point from its neighbors. I think that is a big problem with the “Celts” who became so intermingled with the people that they moved through that it leads to debate as to what a [“Celtic genotype”](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/1256894.stm) would look like & by the end were a people as in a culture and language, rather than a “people” like the Japanese or Basques (this is not to saw the “celtic” people who came in and added some genetic heritage to the genes of the British Isles can’t be seen genetically … they can) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/17 "2008-03-07T13:25:19Z")
This reminds me of that BBC (?) programme that was on about genetics and the Celtic fringes of Britain. The presenters went to Wales, Cornwall and I think Scotland and interviewed people about their heritage. Many of them claimed to be distinctly or predominantly Cornish or Celtic etc in Wales but their genetic makeup indicated significant blurring of distinctions, they were all as much Anglo-Saxon as anything else. I’m not sure about Ireland where being geographically cut off there may well be more distinct differences. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/18 "2008-03-07T14:39:20Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Although, speaking of potatos, with all those damn potatos how come the Irish didn’t invent vodka? [/QUOTE] Potatoes aren’t native to Ireland, but they did come up with [Poitín](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poit%C3%ADn), using barley as the main ingredient. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/19 "2008-03-07T14:41:36Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] This reminds me of that BBC (?) programme that was on about genetics and the Celtic fringes of Britain [/QUOTE] [The Face of Britain](http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/e-h/face.html), it was interesting to see how certain groups spread along routes through Europe, leaving a genetic legacy behind them. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396/20 "2008-03-07T15:06:03Z")
“Celts” is just a descriptor for people whose language was Celtic. Obviously, the farther you go back into the past, the more you have to guess about language. Traditionally, the culture people note similarities in material culture and say “aha, Celts!” while the archaeologists, who are aware that material culture does not have a one-to-one relationship with language, go “um… are there really any Celts, anywhere?” (“Celto-skepticism” is the term.) Anyway. Yes, genetic evidence suggests that the pre-Celtic Irish were absorbed rather than subject to genocide. Both Celts and non-Celts probably came up the Atlantic seabord from what is now Spain (latest theory), conveniently matching the mythology cited above. I believe that’s coincidence, not race memory, for the record. As to the comment about the “Celts” being part “Anglo-Saxon” above, I’m curious: how do they know it’s not the reverse? I get that the two groups share genes, but how do they know which is which? There’s not a spot of England that wasn’t once Celtic, and of course the whole island was settled in the neolithic before the Celts of Continental Europe even began to infix their pronouns. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-liver-in-ireland-before-the-celts/440396.md?page=2)