# Who lives by the sword... - Che Guevara anniversary **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 9, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-lives-by-the-sword-che-guevara-anniversary/422082 "2007-10-09T13:51:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-lives-by-the-sword-che-guevara-anniversary/422082/1 "2007-10-09T13:51:47Z")
On October 9th 1967 Che Guevara was killed in Bolivia, after being captured by Bolivian and CIA troops. While growingup in Cuba I was fully immersed in the myth of Che. Membership in the Pioneer Communist Youth is compulsory, as is the daily recital of the organization’s motto “Pioneros por el comunismo, seremos como el Che!”, or "Pioneers of communism, we will be like Che!. But even in Cuba there were things whispered about Che. About how he was exiled by Fidel, because he was trying to take over the Cuban government. How he presided in show trials, and personaly executed people those convicted in the trials. Later, when I went to Canada I would run into many people who seemed to worship Che, and even admired his cold blooded way of dealing with perceived enemies. Whenever I run into people like I nod in concordance, and smile inwardly because almost without a doubt Che would have thought those same people as enemies, and dealt with them accordingly. Guevara is noted in Cuba for the creation of concentration camps where gays, intellectuals, and anyone found to deviate from “new man” ideology was sent. Actually that part of his legacy is not talked about at all, but it should be. An minor side here, in Cuba Che’s death is commemorated on October 8th, but the date of his death is listed everywhere I’ve seen as October 9th. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-lives-by-the-sword-che-guevara-anniversary/422082/2 "2007-10-09T14:06:17Z")
How is his death commemorated in Cuba? Is it a holiday? It actually surprises me to hear that he’s still thought of fondly there; I thought he and Fidel had it out, and as a result, he would’ve been forgotten or demonized. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-lives-by-the-sword-che-guevara-anniversary/422082/3 "2007-10-09T14:28:18Z")
A relevant Staff Report, brilliantly authored. 😃 [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcheguevara.htm](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcheguevara.htm) ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-lives-by-the-sword-che-guevara-anniversary/422082/4 "2007-10-09T14:33:51Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Lendervedder] How is his death commemorated in Cuba? Is it a holiday? It actually surprises me to hear that he’s still thought of fondly there; I thought he and Fidel had it out, and as a result, he would’ve been forgotten or demonized. [/QUOTE] It’s commemorated with marches and speeches, most work centers shut down and take the workers to wherever Fidel or Raul are speaking. Che tourism is a big deal in Cuba, there is a shrine in Santa Clara where he is buried, and where for years before his body was found hsi hands were on display. And Che memorabilia is everywhere. Additionally, since he is dead he does not pose any threat to Fidel’s rule, so having him be a big part of the culture is not a problem. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-lives-by-the-sword-che-guevara-anniversary/422082/5 "2007-10-09T22:22:32Z")
I thought that the Bolivian military had cut off the hands to verify the identity,then had the rest cremated. Is the Guevara body a wax dummy? (like VI Lenin’s is reputed to be)? ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-lives-by-the-sword-che-guevara-anniversary/422082/6 "2007-10-09T22:50:41Z")
[QUOTE=lalenin] Later, when I went to Canada I would run into many people who seemed to worship Che, and even admired his cold blooded way of dealing with perceived enemies. Whenever I run into people like I nod in concordance, and smile inwardly because almost without a doubt Che would have thought those same people as enemies, and dealt with them accordingly. [/QUOTE] Orwell wrote this in “Notes on Nationalism” (1945): > [@](#): > > The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to the taking of life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States. Moreover they do not as a rule condemn violence as such, but only violence used in defense of western countries. The Russians, unlike the British, are not blamed for defending themselves by warlike means, and indeed all pacifist propaganda of this type avoids mention of Russia or China. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-lives-by-the-sword-che-guevara-anniversary/422082/7 "2007-10-10T13:20:34Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I thought that the Bolivian military had cut off the hands to verify the identity,then had the rest cremated. Is the Guevara body a wax dummy? (like VI Lenin’s is reputed to be)? [/QUOTE] Che’s hands made it to Cuba and were put in display, then years later his skeleton was brought to Cuba and both hands and skeleton were buried in the Che museum in Santa Clara. Lately there have been reports, disputed by the Cuban government, that the skeleton buried in Cuba is not Che’s. ---
**Author:** ![Grossbottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba8739/32.png) [@Grossbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grossbottom)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-lives-by-the-sword-che-guevara-anniversary/422082/8 "2007-10-10T14:05:12Z")
I’ve always regarded Guevara as an incomplete study in the rule that a victorious brute is a revolutionary, whereas a defeated brute is just a dead thug. It’s fair to say that he walked the talk. But there was a definite pretty boy side to the fervent idealist who couldn’t recreate his victories without Fidel being on the same landmass, and I think it goes without saying that writing a how-to book on guerilla warfare probably could have waited until he had demonstrated his own proficiency at same. I should think Fidel’s use, disposal and then reinvention of Guevara is the lesson best learned from the man’s life for any serious student. Fortunately, I live in a place where wearing a Che shirt will probably get your face pushed in so I’m not usually subjected to the cult imagery, displayed ironically or otherwise.