# Who looks worse? Breitbart or Obama WH? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2010, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448 "2010-07-21T11:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/101 "2010-07-21T21:41:20Z")
Upon watching a different version, it seems that people were mostly agreeing with her tone about giving as good as she got. (paraphrased) “While he was taking that time trying to tell me how superior he was to me, I was trying to figure out how much help I would give to him. [murmurs in the crowd]”. That’s the only evidence of ‘laughter’ I could find (but haven’t watched the 45 min version) and I really don’t find it that damning. Maybe I’m biased in that I understand that younger people think differently than I do. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/102 "2010-07-21T22:39:45Z")
I agree that the WH came off as overreactionary to this, but I doubt its mistake will have any political fallout. I can’t see any liberals being so outraged over this that they vote for a Republican or Teabagger, and it’s not as if any conservatives would likely be thinking “see, this is why I can’t get with Obama…he’s always witchhunting black people!” The independents probably are thinking about other, more weightier issues. Like the economy. Unfortunately, this is one of those situations in which doing the right thing (waiting to get more information before rushing to judgement) could have caused more damage to the Obama admin than rushing to judgement did. His political opponents are just waiting for any excuse to accuse Obama of being a racist hypocrite, to whine “…if this had been a white official, he’d have been deep fried and crucified!!” When you have that hanging over your head 24/7, there will eventually be casualities like Sherrod. Which sucks as all get out, but it’s the reality we’re living in. Contrary to what other people seem to be saying in this thread, I actually think this episode will hurt the right’s credibility when it comes to playing the race card. The next time a blogger or FOX News tries to accuse someone aligned with the WH of anti-white racism, people may be more inclined to question their veracity. Maybe I’m being too optimistic though. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/103 "2010-07-21T23:20:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It actually does look like libel to me. I gave a short explanation in post 57. Her reputation was certainly harmed and I think that even if he posted the video exactly as he received it, he published it with reckless disregard to its truthfulness. I guess the argument from his end would be that the video itself is real, it’s just presented in a completely misleading fashion, including the text. I’m not sure if that is any kind of legal defense. In _Westmoreland v.CBS_, General Westmoreland alleged that CBS presented heavily edited tapes, asked biased questions, and selected only the interviews that made him look worst - basically, this same kind of conduct. Applying the New York Times v. Sullivan standard, the judge in the case ruled that this was insufficient to prove actual malice. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/104 "2010-07-21T23:26:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > General Westmoreland … the judge in the case ruled that this was insufficient to prove actual malice. Isn’t the standard set lower for non-public figures? Dragging a gal into the limelight like this hardly seems a friendly act. ---
**Author:** ![meanoldman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@meanoldman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meanoldman)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/105 "2010-07-22T00:09:34Z")
Forgive me. I am old and forgetful. But didn’t Dan Rather get fired for reporting a story as true, that he did not research enough himself? He didn’t make up the story, he just didn’t verify it enough. And this bb guy and faux news don’t check out anything and report it as true and nothing happens? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/106 "2010-07-22T00:13:27Z")
> [@meanoldman](#): > > Forgive me. I am old and forgetful. > > But didn’t Dan Rather get fired for reporting a story as true, that he did not research enough himself? He didn’t make up the story, he just didn’t verify it enough. And this bb guy and faux news don’t check out anything and report it as true and nothing happens? 1. The firing was not so much about the untruth of the report as his acceptance of and reliance on a memo that was faked. 2. CBS is a real news network with an estimable and credible reputation, whereas Breitbart has his own rightwing, partisan blog and Fox is, well, Fox. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/107 "2010-07-22T00:21:00Z")
She is very likely a public figure, as she was speaking about work done as a government official to political activists at a public event. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/108 "2010-07-22T00:33:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In _Westmoreland v.CBS_, General Westmoreland alleged that CBS presented heavily edited tapes, asked biased questions, and selected only the interviews that made him look worst - basically, this same kind of conduct. Applying the New York Times v. Sullivan standard, the judge in the case ruled that this was insufficient to prove actual malice. The particulars of the case are very different. And presumably, since he filed Westmorland’s lawyers thought they had a case. Is it really cut a dried that she has no recourse? From what I know about the Westmorland thing CBS didn’t outright lie or make a statement about X into a statement about Y by clipping out sections. I’m just not seeing the similarities except that it’s a convenient _liberals do it too_ thing to throw up. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/109 "2010-07-22T00:35:14Z")
The [story](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/21/gibbs-apologizes-to-shirl_n_654623.html) is being told that the WH knew nothing of the fireing and Department of Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack is claiming it was all him. Taking one for the team? Morning Joe was having a conversation about how quickly this admin will throw people under the bus for political reasons, and used Rev Wright as an example. WTF??? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/110 "2010-07-22T00:51:31Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > The [story](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/21/gibbs-apologizes-to-shirl_n_654623.html) is being told that the WH knew nothing of the fireing and Department of Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack is claiming it was all him. Taking one for the team? I tend to believe this. I really don’t think the president himself would take the time to listen to every right wing nutjob complaint or he’d have no time to do anything else. OTOH, how often does a scandal involving an employee of the Department of Agriculture make the lead story on the news? Morning Joe was having a conversation about how quickly this admin will throw people under the bus for political reasons, and used Rev Wright as an example. WTF??? [/QUOTE] Wright jumped in front of the bus and insisted it run over him. Obama’s speech- which was a masterpiece of a speech that will be included in college textbooks in many years- gave him an out, but it wasn’t good enough for Wright. In addition, Wright himself was the subject of “out of context” editing; literally, the moment I heard ‘his’ comment “the chickens are coming home to roost” I thought “That’s not Wright, that’s what Malcolm X said when JFK was killed”, and sure enough… he was discussing the JFK/Malcolm X incident. This isn’t to say Wright didn’t make incendiary comments- he did- but some of his worst were taken out of context. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/111 "2010-07-22T01:04:30Z")
[quote=“Sampiro, post:110, topic:547448”] I tend to believe this. I really don’t think the president himself would take the time to listen to every right wing nutjob complaint or he’d have no time to do anything else. OTOH, how often does a scandal involving an employee of the Department of Agriculture make the lead story on the news? > [@](#): > > Wright jumped in front of the bus and insisted it run over him. Obama’s speech- which was a masterpiece of a speech that will be included in college textbooks in many years- gave him an out, but it wasn’t good enough for Wright. In addition, Wright himself was the subject of “out of context” editing; literally, the moment I heard ‘his’ comment “the chickens are coming home to roost” I thought “That’s not Wright, that’s what Malcolm X said when JFK was killed”, and sure enough… he was discussing the JFK/Malcolm X incident. This isn’t to say Wright didn’t make incendiary comments- he did- but some of his worst were taken out of context. I found and listened to Wright’s sermons from which the objectionalble clips came. It demonstrated pretty dramatically how dishonest the stories were. It’s discouraging how eagerly people eat these stories up after they’ve been demonstrated to be bullshit over and over again. Doesn’t anyone in the GOP have the guts to call them what they are? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/112 "2010-07-22T01:24:50Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > The [story](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/21/gibbs-apologizes-to-shirl_n_654623.html) is being told that the WH knew nothing of the fireing and Department of Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack is claiming it was all him. Taking one for the team? I don’t think Obama even knew this lady existed in more than the vaugest way till the morning after the firing. He’s got more important shit on his mind. And is probably pretty darn pissed off about the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/113 "2010-07-22T01:52:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Good point. I was simply taking his word. > > On review, I think you’re absolutely right. His initial attack was against Sherrod, and only now is he trying to spin it as an attack on the NAACP reaction. OK as far as it goes, for a _mea fuckup_. A bit more abject remorse and repentance would be an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/114 "2010-07-22T03:15:09Z")
Here’s what Glenn Beck had to say about it tonight: [http://tv.gawker.com/5593205/glenn-beck-compares-shirley-sherrod-debacle-to-911](http://tv.gawker.com/5593205/glenn-beck-compares-shirley-sherrod-debacle-to-911) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/115 "2010-07-22T03:20:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Your comments indicate you don’t know what’s in the full video. The statement about steering the white guy to “his people” is at the end of the edited video, not the full speech. It’s not the end of her story. [The transcript for the full video.](http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/shirleysherrodnaacpfreedom.htm) She clearly stated her racial bias to a room full of people who are suppose to represent the fight against such biases. That she ended up helping the farmer does not excuse her behavior or her self described racial biases. \*\*“I was struggling with the fact that so many black people have lost their farmland, and here I was faced with having to help a white person save their land. So, I didn’t give him the full force of what I could do.” “So I took him to a white lawyer that we had – that had…attended some of the training that we had provided, 'cause Chapter 12 bankruptcy had just been enacted for the family farmer. So I figured if I take him to one of them that his own kind would take care of him”.\*\* Faced with having to help a white person? One of his own kind? WTH? Sounds like she has issues to me if this is how she relates her personal experiences to a civil rights group. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/116 "2010-07-22T03:24:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s what Glenn Beck had to say about it tonight: A comment from same: > [@](#): > > Don’t worry, folks. Soon he’ll have a seeing eye dog working the blackboard, and the dog will make much more sense. This was only a test. If you didn’t laugh, there is still some possibility of you not going straight to Hell. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/117 "2010-07-22T03:29:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [The transcript for the full video.](http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/shirleysherrodnaacpfreedom.htm) > > She clearly stated her racial bias to a room full of people who are suppose to represent the fight against such biases. That she ended up helping the farmer does not excuse her behavior or her self described racial biases. > > \*\*“I was struggling with the fact that so many black people have lost their farmland, and here I was faced with having to help a white person save their land. So, I didn’t give him the full force of what I could do.” > > “So I took him to a white lawyer that we had – that had…attended some of the training that we had provided, 'cause Chapter 12 bankruptcy had just been enacted for the family farmer. So I figured if I take him to one of them that his own kind would take care of him”.\*\* > > Faced with having to help a white person? One of his own kind? WTH? Sounds like she has issues to me if this is how she relates her personal experiences to a civil rights group. You’ve never heard a “Come To Jesus” story before? Yes, this was her default, at the time, 24 years ago. And then she had a change of heart, realized that it wasn’t a black/white problem but a rich/poor one, and went back to the Spooners’ case and saved their farm for them. She related her own bias and reluctance to help a white person as a set-up to talk about her realization that her bias was as wrong as a white person’s bias against a black person. You really didn’t read any further than it took to prove your own point to yourself, did you? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/118 "2010-07-22T03:36:01Z")
As a liberal, I admire the right when they do this stuff. Didn’t they know the truth would come out in a day or so? Or do they just not care? I assume they don’t care (like with Obama and the madrassa claim, things like that) because they know people who want to believe it will believe it anyway. But the right got the best of all worlds with this one 1. Even after the correction, their diehard tea party followers are still going to believe the original story about Sherrod being racist (just like they still believe Obama raised taxes, that he was born in Kenya, that ACORN stole the election, etc). People who want to believe Obama is evil now have another reason to do so. 2. The right can now hammer the WH about how spineless and pathetic they are. 3. The base of the democratic party is demoralized because we realize how weak our party’s leadership is All in all, good job right wingers. You guys know how to play politics. Who looks worse? Obama and the white house. They have shown how wimpy and easy to trick/dominate they are. Now if they hire Sherrod back they look bad. If they don’t, they look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/119 "2010-07-22T03:36:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > She clearly stated her racial bias to a room full of people who are suppose to represent the fight against such biases. That she ended up helping the farmer does not excuse her behavior or her self described racial biases. Shit, you’re not even attempting to get the context of the story. You’re still quoting from the piece Breitbart misrepresented and not paying attention to the rest of it. > [@](#): > > That’s when it was revealed to me that, ya’ll, it’s about poor versus those who have, and not so much about white – it is about white and black, but it’s not – you know, it opened my eyes, 'cause I took him to one of his own and I put him in his hand, and felt okay, I’ve done my job. But, during that time we would have these injunctions against the Department of Agriculture and – so, they couldn’t foreclose on him. And I want you to know that the county supervisor had done something to him that I have not seen yet that they’ve done to any other farmer, black or white. And what they did to him caused him to not be able to file Chapter 12 bankruptcy. > […] > But where am I going with this? You know, I couldn’t say 45 years ago – I couldn’t stand here and say what I’m saying – what I will say to you tonight. Like I told you, God helped me to see that it’s not just about black people – it’s about poor people. And I’ve come a long way. I knew that I couldn’t live with hate, you know. As my mother has said to so many, “If we had tried to live with hate in our hearts, we’d probably be dead now.” > > But I’ve come to realize that we have to work together and – you know, it’s sad that we don’t have a room full of white and blacks here tonight, 'cause we have to overcome the divisions that we have. We have to get to the point where, as Tony Morrison said, “Race exists but it doesn’t matter.” We have to work just as hard. I know it’s – you know, that division is still here, but our communities are not going to thrive – you know, our children won’t have the – the communities that they need to be able to stay in and live in and – and have a good life if we can’t figure this out, you all. White people, black people, Hispanic people, we all have to do our part to make our communities a safe place, a healthy place, a good environment. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/120 "2010-07-22T03:48:49Z")
> [@](#): > > …She clearly stated her racial bias to a room full of people who are suppose to represent the fight against such biases. That she ended up helping the farmer does not excuse her behavior or her self described racial biases… You really don’t get it, **Magiver**? Let me break it down a bit. Its a standard structure. The speaker is confessional, relating how woeful a person he was, until he found Jesus, or stopped drinking, or Jesus stopped drinking…whatever. The foundation must be lain, the speaker confesses. Then comes the part about taking the donkey on the Damascus Turnpike and then Something Happened. It varies, of course, sometimes a pretty good person becomes a somewhat better person, sometimes an unspeakable swine does an existential backflip to a sterling fellow, it varies. But the structure remains the same, the confessional leads to the moment of aha!, the little light goes on, and a better person arises. If you clip the structure right before the aha!..all you’ve got left is the confessional, where the speaker admits to faults and failings now overcome! Commonly, this is done in shout/response cadence. The speaker relates how his sins and corruptions drove him to dreadful acts, and the audience shouts approval. But not approval of the dreadful acts, but approval of the unburdening of the repentant, the madrigal son returns, that sort of thing. They are not approving the acts themselves so much as urging the speaker to “get it all out”. To an ignorant or determined mind viewing the shortened version, it could appear that she is celebrating her racism to an audience cheering her on. And there’s nothing wrong with that, except that it just ain’t so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448.md?page=7)