# Who looks worse? Breitbart or Obama WH? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2010, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448 "2010-07-21T11:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/121 "2010-07-22T03:50:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Shit, you’re not even attempting to get the context of the story. You’re still quoting from the piece Breitbart misrepresented and not paying attention to the rest of it. I posted the whole transcript. She clearly has racial issues. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/122 "2010-07-22T03:57:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You really don’t get it, **Magiver**? Let me break it down a bit. > > Its a standard structure. The speaker is confessional, relating how woeful a person he was, until he found Jesus, or stopped drinking, or Jesus stopped drinking…whatever. The foundation must be lain, the speaker confesses. Then comes the part about taking the donkey on the Damascus Turnpike and then Something Happened. Ignore her biases because she helped a white guy? That’s the standard here? She did her job despite her racial misgivings so now everything resets to zero? Really? At the very least her previous cases need to be reviewed. She is a government worker not Jimmy Swaggart. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/123 "2010-07-22T04:00:09Z")
Do you really not get that she’s telling a story about something she did 24 years ago, and that she learned a lesson from it? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/124 "2010-07-22T04:53:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Do you really not get that she’s telling a story about something she did 24 years ago, and that she learned a lesson from it? Yes but you don’t seem to get that in the year 2010 she’s talking in terms of “their own kind”. Last time I checked there was only one kind unless you have some kind of race issue. I’m so glad she had her Jimmy Swaggart moment but she still talks as if she thinks in terms of black and white. Any reinstatement should include sensitivity training and a review of her caseloads/contracts she’s been involved in. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/125 "2010-07-22T05:19:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s kind of funny, **Damuri Ajashi** , but the thing is Barack Obama can’t make laws. Then what the fuck use is the bully pulpit? You’re telling me he couldn’t write his own ticket when he first got into office and his approval rating among REPUBLICANS was over 50%. > [@meanoldman](#): > > Forgive me. I am old and forgetful. > > But didn’t Dan Rather get fired for reporting a story as true, that he did not research enough himself? He didn’t make up the story, he just didn’t verify it enough. And this bb guy and faux news don’t check out anything and report it as true and nothing happens? Did you miss the part about this being on Fox? > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > She is very likely a public figure, as she was speaking about work done as a government official to political activists at a public event. OK, I’m confused, was this work done as a government employee or as an employee of an NGO? > [@Magiver](#): > > [The transcript for the full video.](http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/shirleysherrodnaacpfreedom.htm) > > She clearly stated her racial bias to a room full of people who are suppose to represent the fight against such biases. That she ended up helping the farmer does not excuse her behavior or her self described racial biases. > > \*\*“I was struggling with the fact that so many black people have lost their farmland, and here I was faced with having to help a white person save their land. So, I didn’t give him the full force of what I could do.” > > “So I took him to a white lawyer that we had – that had…attended some of the training that we had provided, 'cause Chapter 12 bankruptcy had just been enacted for the family farmer. So I figured if I take him to one of them that his own kind would take care of him”.\*\* > > Faced with having to help a white person? One of his own kind? WTH? Sounds like she has issues to me if this is how she relates her personal experiences to a civil rights group. I see what happened, you stopped reading right there. Breitbart did the same thing and it caused ALL sorts of confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/126 "2010-07-22T06:15:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I see what happened, you stopped reading right there. Breitbart did the same thing and it caused ALL sorts of confusion. There is no confusion as to how she refers to white people. She may be Mother Theresa but she doesn’t sound like it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/127 "2010-07-22T07:24:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is no confusion as to how she refers to white people. She may be Mother Theresa but she doesn’t sound like it. You don’t understand what we’re talking about. You are saying things that indicate that you haven’t bothered to read the thread and are relying on the outright lies that Brietbart threw out there yesterday. Please, do you think you could try to get even a basic grasp of what we’re dealing with here before you make grand pronouncements? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/128 "2010-07-22T07:32:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You don’t understand what we’re talking about. You are saying things that indicate that you haven’t bothered to read the thread and are relying on the outright lies that Brietbart threw out there yesterday. Please, do you think you could try to get even a basic grasp of what we’re dealing with here before you make grand pronouncements? I read the transcript as well as watched the video. I understand exactly what you’re talking about. My posts were clear and to the point. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/129 "2010-07-22T07:40:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I read the transcript as well as watched the video. I understand exactly what you’re talking about. My posts were clear and to the point. No they weren’t, you’re talking rubbish and clearly didn’t watch the full video, because if you did you’d likely understand that what you wrote makes no sense. Look, I know you have no intention of ever admitting you were wrong, and I’m okay with that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/130 "2010-07-22T07:42:58Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No they weren’t, you’re talking rubbish and clearly didn’t watch the full video, because if you did you’d likely understand that what you wrote makes no sense. > > Look, I know you have no intention of ever admitting you were wrong, and I’m okay with that. You’ve done nothing but run your mouth. what don’t I understand? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/131 "2010-07-22T07:51:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I read the transcript as well as watched the video. I understand exactly what you’re talking about. My posts were clear and to the point. You make a really good point…whites do need to be mindful that blacks in power will discriminate against them in the same way that whites discriminated against blacks. The slighttest thought, no matter how fleeting, is something to watch out for even if the person winds up not acting on or acts against their natural urge to be racist. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/132 "2010-07-22T07:54:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’ve done nothing but run your mouth. what don’t I understand? Hey, don’t get snippy, at least I know what I’m talking about. You don’t understand that the story she’s relating is from 20 some years ago. You don’t understand that the point of the story was to illustrate that she had a racist impulse and came to realize that the people she was helping were just like her. That they had a bond of being poor people and were more alike than different. She went on to save the farm of the people she’s talking about. You don’t understand that Brietbart disseminated a video with only the story, not the explanation about what that moment twenty some years ago taught her. You don’t understand that Brietbart framed the story as exactly opposite of what it actually showed. You also don’t understand [that a double punch to the sides of the head is actually much weaker than a one-armed punch thrown with force.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12663228#post12663228) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/133 "2010-07-22T08:11:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Hey, don’t get snippy, at least I know what I’m talking about. > > You don’t understand that the story she’s relating is from 20 some years ago. You don’t understand that the point of the story was to illustrate that she had a racist impulse and came to realize that the people she was helping were just like her. That they had a bond of being poor people and were more alike than different. She went on to save the farm of the people she’s talking about. > > You don’t understand that Brietbart disseminated a video with only the story, not the explanation about what that moment twenty some years ago taught her. > > You don’t understand that Brietbart framed the story as exactly opposite of what it actually showed. I understand she related a story from 20 years ago. If you read my posts you would understand this. My contention has been with her modern use of terminology as she relates to other races. I was clear on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/134 "2010-07-22T08:27:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes but you don’t seem to get that in the year 2010 she’s talking in terms of “their own kind”. Last time I checked there was only one kind unless you have some kind of race issue. > > I’m so glad she had her Jimmy Swaggart moment but she still talks as if she thinks in terms of black and white. Any reinstatement should include sensitivity training and a review of her caseloads/contracts she’s been involved in. The reference to ‘their own kind’ was talking about her attitude **then** , not now. **Then** , she turned them over to one of ‘their own kind’. That does not reflect her ideas **now**. It’s merely telling what her thoughts were **at the time** she did it. And then she changed those thoughts and changed that attitude, and she doesn’t feel that way anymore. ‘Their own kind’ was still in the time period of the original incident, 20+ years ago. It no longer reflects her current beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/135 "2010-07-22T08:35:24Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > The reference to ‘their own kind’ was talking about her attitude **then** , not now. **Then** , she turned them over to one of ‘their own kind’. That does not reflect her ideas **now**. It’s merely telling what her thoughts were **at the time** she did it. And then she changed those thoughts and changed that attitude, and she doesn’t feel that way anymore. > > ‘Their own kind’ was still in the time period of the original incident, 20+ years ago. It no longer reflects her current beliefs. No, that’s not an accurate assessment. Using that logic would be like someone relating a story about helping a colored boy get is farm back. When relating a story of a past discretion/salvation it’s presented in current terminology. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/136 "2010-07-22T11:05:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, that’s not an accurate assessment. Using that logic would be like someone relating a story about helping a colored boy get is farm back. > > When relating a story of a past discretion/salvation it’s presented in current terminology. She’s describing what she thought at the time, and I didn’t hear her use that kind of wording to describe what she feels about any group of people now. I can see why you would find it odd or distasteful if she was talking about her attitude today, but in the meantime this seems like missing the forest for the trees. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/137 "2010-07-22T11:16:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > When relating a story of a past discretion/salvation it’s presented in current terminology. There’s no such rule or way to judge her meaning except in context. It’s perfectly normal and acceptable to tell a story about past attitudues and make the point even more clear by using the terms you were thinking at the time. 20 years ago I was a racist and couldn’t stand to associate with “niggers”. Then I realized how wrong I was. The term is only there to help illustrate the 20 year old attitude ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/138 "2010-07-22T11:31:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I posted the whole transcript. She clearly has racial issues. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if a person who grew up in racial times had lingering feelings of racism. Like her, Rev Wright, and obvious signs of racism amongs whites in their response to Obama. The larger and more significant point is her recognition of her racism and her efforts to overcome them. Let’s also note the more significant problem of the disgusting folks who fan the fires of racism by distorting the truth. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/139 "2010-07-22T12:13:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I posted the whole transcript. She clearly has racial issues. Based on her past experiences, the fact that she didn’t go postal on every white person she met means she has a pretty good handle on any “racial issues” she might have had. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448/140 "2010-07-22T12:30:25Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The particulars of the case are very different. And presumably, since he filed Westmorland’s lawyers thought they had a case. Is it really cut a dried that she has no recourse? From what I know about the Westmorland thing CBS didn’t outright lie or make a statement about X into a statement about Y by clipping out sections. > > I’m just not seeing the similarities except that it’s a convenient _liberals do it too_ thing to throw up. The specifics for actual malice are the same if public figures are involved, be they liberal or conservative: the statements, to be libelous, must be made with _actual malice_, which means either a knowledge they were false or a reckless disregard for the truth. “Failure to investigate does not in itself establish bad faith.” NY Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254, 287-288 (1964). In St. Amant v. Thompson, 390 US 727 (1968), a magazine published an article accusing a deputy sheriff of taking bribes from criminals associated with the Teamsters. There was no investigation at all of the allegations. > [@](#): > > For purposes of this case we accept the determinations of the Louisiana courts that the material published by St. Amant charged Thompson with criminal conduct, that the charge was false, and that Thompson was a public official[2] and so had the burden of proving that the false statements about Thompson were made with actual malice as defined in New York Times Co. v. Sullivan and later cases. We cannot, however, agree with either the Supreme Court of Louisiana or the trial court that Thompson sustained this burden. > . > . > . > These considerations fall short of proving St. Amant’s reckless disregard for the accuracy of his statements about Thompson. “Reckless disregard,” it is true, cannot be fully encompassed in one infallible definition. Inevitably its outer limits will be marked out through case-by-case adjudication, as is true with so many legal standards for judging concrete cases, whether the standard is provided by the Constitution, statutes, or case law. Our cases, however, have furnished meaningful guidance for the further definition of a reckless publication. In New York Times, supra, the plaintiff did not satisfy his burden because the record failed to show that the publisher was aware of the likelihood that he was circulating false information. In Garrison v. Louisiana, 379 U. S. 64 (1964), also decided before the decision of the Louisiana Supreme Court in this case, the opinion emphasized the necessity for a showing that a false publication was made with a “high degree of awareness of . . . probable falsity.” 379 U. S., at 74. MR. JUSTICE HARLAN’S opinion in Curtis Publishing Co. v. Butts, 388 U. S. 130, 153 (1967), stated that evidence of either deliberate falsification or reckless publication “despite the publisher’s awareness of probable falsity” was essential to recovery by public officials in defamation actions. These cases are clear that reckless conduct is not measured by whether a reasonably prudent man would have published, or would have investigated before publishing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-looks-worse-breitbart-or-obama-wh/547448.md?page=8)