# Who most influenced Western Civilization? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511 "2007-10-29T23:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/1 "2007-10-29T23:04:54Z")
Interesting, I’ve heard two claims the past couple of days about the person with the greatest influence on Western Civilization. 1. Martin Luther. 2. Alexander the Great I can see how an argument can be made for Luther. Luther’s challenge to the Catholic church and the debates between Catholics and Protestants continue to this day. Alexander the Great was mentioned because without his spread of Greek culture, the Western world would be vastly different today. I think I’m going to go a bit more recent and pick George Washington. Without Washington the general, the American Revolution would have failed. Without Washington the president, the American nation would have failed. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/2 "2007-10-29T23:14:30Z")
I think it’s Reagan. Without his anti-tax crusade education funding wouldn’t have been cut and people might grow up understanding what Western Civilization is. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/3 "2007-10-29T23:30:05Z")
Jesus Christ (assuming that he actually existed). ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/4 "2007-10-29T23:41:19Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] I think it’s Reagan. Without his anti-tax crusade education funding wouldn’t have been cut and people might grow up understanding what Western Civilization is. [/QUOTE] Not enough :rolleyes: in the world. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/5 "2007-10-29T23:53:58Z")
If you’re looking for one, single person, I think it’s hard to say. But you should keep Gutenberg in mind. Time-Life Magazine chose his printing press as the most important invention of the 2nd Millennium. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/6 "2007-10-30T00:00:03Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] If you’re looking for one, single person, I think it’s hard to say. But you should keep Gutenberg in mind. Time-Life Magazine chose his printing press as the most important invention of the 2nd Millennium. [/QUOTE] I didn’t include Gutenberg because I thought, “If Gutenberg didn’t invent moveable type, would someone else likely have done so?” ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/7 "2007-10-30T00:18:52Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] Not enough :rolleyes: in the world. [/QUOTE] I think you missed my sarcasm. Washington is much too recent, and way too US specific to be the person that most influenced Western Civilzation. The US and French revolutions stood on the shoulders of The Enlightenment, so at the least you would include Voltaire, Rosseau and the other Enlightenment philosophers. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/8 "2007-10-30T00:24:05Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] Alexander the Great was mentioned because without his spread of Greek culture, the Western world would be vastly different today. [/QUOTE] I’m going to disagree on this one. Alexander spread Greek culture _east_. But it was earlier Greek trade and colonization _west_ that had the big impact on western civilization. Most of Alexander’s Hellenizing ( and that of his successors ) gradually faded out in the ensuing few centuries. It was a big impact, but I don’t think our world would be _vastly_ different without it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/9 "2007-10-30T00:51:33Z")
How about Augustus Caesar? He essentially built the Roman Empire and did such a good job that it kept running for over a thousand years. And for a lot of that time, the Empire was Western Civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/10 "2007-10-30T01:07:07Z")
How about St Peter, through his founding of the Papacy of Rome and the Church in Europe? The Church kept knowledge alive through the Dark Ages. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/11 "2007-10-30T01:25:25Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] Interesting, I’ve heard two claims the past couple of days about the person with the greatest influence on Western Civilization. 1. Martin Luther. 2. Alexander the Great [/QUOTE] 😕 What about Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/12 "2007-10-30T01:32:16Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] How about St Peter, through his founding of the Papacy of Rome and the Church in Europe? The Church kept knowledge alive through the Dark Ages. [/QUOTE] Or repressed knowledge, as the case may be, causing the Dark Ages. Either way, influential. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/13 "2007-10-30T01:39:54Z")
Martin Luther seems a streach as well. Their were a lot of similar figures floating around at the same time period, and a lot of Princes and Kings looking for an excuse to break the Vatican’s power. I imagine that someone else would’ve sparked the Reformation even if Luther done his thing. Since woman never get represented in these things, I’ll go with Lise Meitner, the discoverer of Nuclear Fission. Like Luther, if she hadn’t done it, someone else would have. But unlike Luther, the timing of the idea she’s know for was important. If someone else had made the same discovery, but a few years earlier, the European countries might’ve started WWII with nuclear weapon programs already well underway. A few years later, and the US might’ve not built the bomb before the end of the war, and then decided to try it out on the Communists in N. Korea or Eastern Europe instead. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/14 "2007-10-30T01:39:54Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] How about Augustus Caesar? He essentially built the Roman Empire and did such a good job that it kept running for over a thousand years. And for a lot of that time, the Empire was Western Civilization. [/QUOTE] I don’t think it ran very well for those 1000 years. And really, it was forced to split in two, with the Western half going tits-up and the Eastern half transforming into the Byzantine Empire, a different empire, really. But if we count that empire as the Roman Empire, well it lasted until the 1500’s or so (off the top of my head) ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/15 "2007-10-30T01:43:12Z")
Who devised and/or promoted the Scientific Method? That person has got to be right up there on the influence-o-meter. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/16 "2007-10-30T02:13:09Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] I didn’t include Gutenberg because I thought, “If Gutenberg didn’t invent moveable type, would someone else likely have done so?” [/QUOTE] Isn’t that begging the question? If someone else invented it, then that someone else would be cited instead of Gutenberg. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/17 "2007-10-30T02:19:39Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] Isn’t that begging the question? If someone else invented it, then that someone else would be cited instead of Gutenberg. [/QUOTE] I think **dalej42** is trying to eliminate “steam engine time” type discoveries. If the state of the art is such that any number of people could have invented moveable type, then it is inevitable that _someone_ will invent it. I tend to agree, I think. I would only apply influential to one of a kind people, whose role could not have been filled by anyone else. > [@Shamozzle](#): > > Who devised and/or promoted the Scientific Method? That person has got to be right up there on the influence-o-meter. Roger Bacon is frequently credited. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/18 "2007-10-30T02:35:25Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] I think you missed my sarcasm. [/QUOTE] No, it’s **smiling bandit**. He caught it. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/19 "2007-10-30T02:38:25Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Or repressed knowledge, as the case may be, causing the Dark Ages. Either way, influential. [/QUOTE] Actually, the northern and eastern assaults on the Empire caused its fall, and therefore the Dark Ages. The Church both kept knowledge alive AND kept it to herself- not causing the Dark Ages, but not overthrowing them either. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511/20 "2007-10-30T03:12:16Z")
Granted, that the previous posts are perhaps more relevant than mine, but here goes: Ahem… The Beatles influenced modern 20th century culture in a major way. They influenced everything from hairstyles, to language, to dress, to recreational drug use, to film making, and quite obviously invented and changed popular music in an unprecedented manner. Unprecedented? Well maybe Elvis had some claim to that, but there’s a HUGE difference between say, Heartbreak Hotel and Strawberry Fields Forever. The Beatles changed western society. No doubt about it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-most-influenced-western-civilization/424511.md?page=2)