# Who needs a trial for alleged rapists? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587 "2014-05-16T15:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/81 "2014-05-17T00:15:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Better advice: if you’re a human being, don’t be alone with **ZPG Zealot**. What do you have against other living organisms? I agree with your first post about potential conflicts of interest. The military is just beginning to sort out the mess they’ve created. One might think an Ivy League school might read the papers and realize it has the exact same issue. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/82 "2014-05-17T00:22:10Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Always a fun read on a rainy afternoon! 😃 We have way different definitions of fun, even when used sarcastically. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/83 "2014-05-17T00:22:40Z")
I KNEW IT! I KNEW IT! ZPG Zealot raped a man! Specifically, she “raped” a minister. See [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12094747&postcount=57). Dang. What’s the new colloquial term for _even crazier than batshit insane_? I think I’ll go with _ZPG crazy_. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/84 "2014-05-17T00:39:38Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > True crimes have various grades, but wouldn’t you agree that to say one type of crime should not be considered a crime because it is not as severe perverts justice. Say someone hits you in the head, it leaves a nasty scar, would you be content with a judge saying the assailant shouldn’t be charge with anything or face any repercussions because well, he or she (so everything’s gender neutral) didn’t kill you? But that is not reality. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/85 "2014-05-17T00:53:01Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > ZPG is a chick who equates unwanted handshakes to rape. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Assault is assault, arguments over the degree of penetration are really just creating excuses for assailants. Assault is assault, but a handshake is not an assault. Unwanted touching is battery. Assault is the threat of immediate physical harm. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/86 "2014-05-17T01:21:26Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Assault is assault, but a handshake is not an assault. Unwanted touching is battery. Assault is the threat of immediate physical harm. Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. —Greg King ---
**Author:** ![SmallBrownBurro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@SmallBrownBurro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmallBrownBurro)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/87 "2014-05-17T02:15:41Z")
I think Emily Post, Judith Martin, etc would agree with this: > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The tradiational etiquette has always been a gentleman waits for a woman to extend her hand to avoid this problem or if he inadvertently mistakes a woman for a man and extends his hand he apologizes immediately and everyone goes on about the day. But I don’t think they would say this was the correct response to an etiquette breach: > [@](#): > > it’s happened to me and I’ve had to explain to the police (Human Resources called them, not me) why I slapped the son-of-bitch. Were you both fired after this? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/88 "2014-05-17T02:35:20Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > It’s physical contact and if it’s unwanted it’s assault. It’s a really simply concept. Women are human beings. You don’t get to touch them without their permission. That’s hot. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/89 "2014-05-17T02:40:52Z")
> [@SmallBrownBurro](#): > > I think Emily Post, Judith Martin, etc would agree with this: > > But I don’t think they would say this was the correct response to an etiquette breach: > > Were you both fired after this? Hopefully, only ZPGZ was. Her victim did nothing wrong other than extend his hand. You know, like an actual gentleman would have done. ---
**Author:** ![SmallBrownBurro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@SmallBrownBurro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmallBrownBurro)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/90 "2014-05-17T02:50:07Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Hopefully, only ZPGZ was. Her victim did nothing wrong other than extend his hand. You know, like an actual gentleman would have done. I thought it read like he grabbed her hand when she didn’t accept his, which would be rather rude. If not then only she should have been fired, you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/91 "2014-05-17T03:15:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > They’re both defamation and should give rise to liability. I’m a lot more conflicted. First, doesn’t the accuser in a defamation case have to prove the accusation is false? I may well be wrong on this; please correct me if I am. Is a genuine belief in the accusation a defense against claims of defamation? Second, I think it’s absolutely appropriate in a one-on-one basis for Alice to tell her friend Beatrice that JoeBob raped her, and it’s appropriate for Beatrice to let Charlotte know, as well; on the contrary, if Beatrice watched Charlotte leave a party with JoeBob after Alice told her her story, and didn’t warn Charlotte, I’d think Beatrice was a horrible person. If the folks posting the signs about the suspected rapists have solid information that they believe they can trust, I’m not entirely clear why it’s inappropriate for them to tell this story to more women. What principle distinguishes between warning a friend about a rapist, and warning a stranger about a rapist? And is this principle ethical, legal, or both? If the accusation is false, of course it’s a terrible thing to do–but that’s a problem with false accusations, not a problem with all accusations. All that said, I’m still not comfortable with the flyers, but I’m having trouble articulating a clear reason why (I’ve deleted a few attempts because they didn’t hold up). > [@SmallBrownBurro](#): > > I think Emily Post, Judith Martin, etc would agree with this: They wouldn’t. I looked it up last time this idiotic subject came up, and going back to early 20th century it’s clear in etiquette guides that within a business setting, handshakes offered to men should be offered on exactly the same terms as handshakes offered to women. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/92 "2014-05-17T03:30:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m a lot more conflicted. First, doesn’t the accuser in a defamation case have to prove the accusation is false? I may well be wrong on this; please correct me if I am. Is a genuine belief in the accusation a defense against claims of defamation? In American law, truth is a defense to z claim of defamation, which means that the the defendant has to prove that the allegedly defamatory statement is true. The burden is different if the plaintiff is a public figure. > [@](#): > > Second, I think it’s absolutely appropriate in a one-on-one basis for Alice to tell her friend Beatrice that JoeBob raped her, and it’s appropriate for Beatrice to let Charlotte know, as well; on the contrary, if Beatrice watched Charlotte leave a party with JoeBob after Alice told her her story, and didn’t warn Charlotte, I’d think Beatrice was a horrible person. If it could harm JoeBob’s reputation, it’s still defamation. In this case private defamation (slander), rather than public defamation (libel). It could still ruin JieBob’s life, and that creates an actionable harm. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/93 "2014-05-17T07:26:12Z")
> [@SmallBrownBurro](#): > > I thought it read like he grabbed her hand when she didn’t accept his, which would be rather rude. > > If not then only she should have been fired, you’re right. That’s okay. After all, the incident she “related” simply did not happen. She made it up. I feel kind of silly myself for not recognizing that immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/94 "2014-05-17T07:57:19Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If I take a day off, the rapists win. Seriously, gentlemen (and I am really compliementing some of you with that term), if you don’t want to be accused of rape, don’t put yourself in positions where you’re alone with a woman. PFFFT! HA! LOL! That’s the most fucked up thing I’ve heard in a long time. So if a man is falsely accused of rape, it is his own fault for being alone with a woman? It’s their own fault for not bringing a chaperone on their dates? What kind of logic is that? ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/95 "2014-05-17T08:10:39Z")
Sorry… this thread is just so mind-blowing I had to come back to it. ZPG Zealot chose her name wisely, because she is obviously a zealot in the worst possible meaning of the term. I don’t know if you are a refugee from Afghanistan, or the Victorian era, or some militant Mormon enclave, or what, but no sane human being who expects to interact with normal society on a daily basis views the world through the exagerratedly hostile lens that you do. I don’t know even a single woman (except you) who would equate a handshake with rape, assault, or marital infidelity. It is a normal and commonplace custom, and reacting with violence is bizarre and unreasonable by anyone’s standards. Your standards for “respect” are so bafflingly beyond those of sane human beings that I am frankly astonished that you even manage to function in daily life, and I would have no interest in speaking to or working with someone who presumed my normal customs and courtesies were hostile assaults on her gender. Good luck to you, and God have mercy on any man unfortunate enough to offer you a handshake. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/96 "2014-05-17T08:34:29Z")
Can someone explain to me why these women didn’t go to the police? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/97 "2014-05-17T09:05:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Can someone explain to me why these women didn’t go to the police? 1. The women who posted the flyers in question are playing fast and loose with the truth, not to mention their choice of words. 2. Those same women have no proof that an actual rape has occurred. 3. The victims of their smear campaign would have legal recourse if those loons filed a false police report. 4. No laws were broken. That should do for now. And lest it gets lost in the thread, ZPG Zealot’s BS about slapping someone and HR calling police, etc., is just that–BS. It did not happen. There’s no way that story is true. Also, let’s not forget her “raping” that minister by doing to him what she says is rape from males. I’m going to do my best to post this paragraph on every thread page in which she trots that out or any of her other insanity on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/98 "2014-05-17T09:39:11Z")
> [@SmallBrownBurro](#): > > I think Emily Post, Judith Martin, etc would agree with this: Emily Post advises to let the woman initiate the shake in Islamic countries. Judith Martin never brings that up from what I’ve seen. Other etiquette writers don’t mention anything about mixed gender handshakes. One amusing one that I came across was for advice in Russia…they say it is impolite for a man to shake hands with a woman, because a kiss to the hand is what would be expected. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/99 "2014-05-17T09:56:59Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > And lest it gets lost in the thread, ZPG Zealot’s BS about slapping someone and HR calling police, etc., is just that–BS. It did not happen. Why do you keep saying that? It’s perfectly plausible knowing her attitude. A co worker touches her hand and she freaks out. Human resources then calls the police because there’s a crazy lady in the office slapping people. The police show up and she has to explain why she slapped the guy. What’s so hard to believe? I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this wasn’t the first time somebody called the cops on **ZPG Zealot** ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587/100 "2014-05-17T10:47:44Z")
Oh, probably because she would’ve related her arrest, her firing, and then railed about the unfairness of all that. And, of course, nobody’s going to stand there in an office while some lunatic woman is slapping them repeatedly. One slap, it’s over, the victim goes to HR, ZPG Zealot gets called in and fired. That’s the likely outcome if the story were even remotely true. Like a couple of other things she’s posted, that story really doesn’t pass the smell test. I’m with you, though, in thinking that the cops have been called on her at least once, but not the way _she_ says it happened. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-a-trial-for-alleged-rapists/688587.md?page=6)