# Who needs guns for anything, anyway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 7, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659 "2010-03-07T22:30:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/101 "2010-03-08T08:54:51Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > Perhaps if I lost a loved one? > > I tried to avoid hitting the head of this issue, because I thought perhaps you had some semblance of common sense. I have lost someone I cared about to senseless violence. When I was younger a very close friend of mine was abused before she was beaten and stabbed to death. She was missing for three days. > > Before you condescend to anyone, much less a thread full of people about how you know so very much more than they do about loss, you should sit back and think that you are not the center of the universe and your experiences are not the only ones that people have had. > > Once again, I’ll state as politely as possible; You owe everyone in this thread an apology. > > And before you say something as stupid as “Yeah, but she was stabbed to death,” let me tell you that it doesn’t hurt any less, even five years later, because she died from being stabbed opposed to be shot. And I don’t hate knives for the crime, because it wasn’t the fault of a knife, I never for a moment wanted to see a knife strung up from a tree and beaten until it was unrecognizable. > Edit: As for you “exploding metal penises” comment, if you think that moronic bit of snark helps your already shattered case, I can’t see how reason would ever sway you. I’m going to avoid this thread – and probably you – from this point on. Have fun, and I hope that you don’t ever have to go through losing someone like that to learn just where the anger gets directed. It’s hell. You think you’re the only one? I’ve had 2 very close friends die from gunshot wounds-- one self-inflicted, one not. Your dramatic emotional appeal rings empty to me after expending so much effort in support of instruments of death and violence. You’ve thrown cold counter-arguments about target shooting competition and homebrewed handguns, but you have not shown one iota of compassion or concern for the thousands of people who would still be alive each year if not for our gun-crazed culture, regardless of whether they are legal or not. So get off your styrofoam pedestal because I don’t owe you shit. I want the nonsense to end. You seem happy to feed it. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/102 "2010-03-08T09:06:52Z")
I posted a nuanced and thoughtful OP hoping for some interesting discussion on the topic, and I got a bunch of responses from enculturated gunophiles who have never bothered to ask a question that might not have an answer. “Don’t think guns are totally cool, super awesome, extreme to the max, and should be completely unregulated, even in daycares, yoga retreats, and cage fights? Well then FUCK YOU!” “Want to talk about both sides of the issue? Well LICK MY BALLS, because I’m draggin’ the discourse straight into the shitter, bub.” Mods, just shut this thread down, please. It’s so pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/103 "2010-03-08T09:39:21Z")
Go on thinking what you will, **Cisco**. You seem so intent on condemning the supporters of gun rights that you’ve ignored the fact that your own contribution to the discourse has been less than stellar. Exploding iron penises, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/104 "2010-03-08T09:50:26Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I posted a nuanced and thoughtful OP hoping for some interesting discussion on the topic, and I got a bunch of responses from enculturated gunophiles who have never bothered to ask a question that might not have an answer… Which part of your subsequent discussion would you say was the most nuanced and thoughtful? Was it “exploding iron penises?” ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/105 "2010-03-08T09:54:16Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > But lately, I’ve been thinking, how far do _my_ rights go? Where’s the support for _my_ right to not get shot by a burgler, or a road-raging soccer mom, or any other random asshole who’s had a major gun-on ever since he saw _True Grit_? > > … > > Was there _ever_ _any_ purpose for them other than to kill a human being? I suggest you’re looking at it the wrong way round: they’re insurance so **you don’t get killed** by that road-raging soccer mom or other random asshole. If that means ending their life, then so be it. The police cannot be everywhere. Pistols are as much - if not more - **defensive** weapons than offensive ones. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/106 "2010-03-08T10:07:20Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I suggest you’re looking at it the wrong way round: they’re insurance so **you don’t get killed** by that road-raging soccer mom or other random asshole. If that means ending their life, then so be it. The police cannot be everywhere. Pistols are as much - if not more - **defensive** weapons than offensive ones. No, that’s how I looked at it most of my life. That’s how most Americans see it. I’m looking at it from a different angle now. > [@Bricker](#): > > Which part of your subsequent discussion would you say was the most nuanced and thoughtful? Was it “exploding iron penises?” Probably. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/107 "2010-03-08T10:30:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m still not very clear on how, precisely, one is supposed to use a gun for protection. Sure, you can put holes in an assailant, but unless you’re a better shot than anyone this side of a Hollywood movie, you probably can’t put those holes someplace that’ll kill instantly. Maybe that guy will be dead of blood loss in sixty seconds, but in that sixty seconds, there’s nothing to stop him from doing whatever it was you shot him to prevent. Even a novice can group 3 shots closely together at 25 feet and that is more than adequate to drop someone in the average home in less than 2 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/108 "2010-03-08T10:40:40Z")
I think the underlying question is quite interesting - that is: _why is X a right?_ - I mean, I live in a place where we have all sorts of legally-defined rights, but aside from maybe the UN declaration of human rights, we don’t really have them all written down and numbered in a way that is memorable to the general public. -I mean, the question of _why do we consider this right to be necessary?_ - the question that isn’t answerable by the fact that it is listed and indexed somewhere. And if I ever form a death-metal band (most unlikely), I’m almost certain I would call it _Exploding Metal Penises_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/109 "2010-03-08T13:26:12Z")
Closed at the request of the OP. For future reference, **Cisco** and **Todderbob** , please keep the personal jabs in the Pit and not here. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/110 "2010-03-08T13:35:17Z")
First of all, it’s impossible to count how many people are saved by guns every year. Sure, you can count the amount of people who were rightfully killed by guns, but it’s impossible to count how many would-be robbers, rapists and murderers were scared off (often, just shouting “I have a gun!” will do the trick) by an armed victim. Second of all, when you make firearms illegal, you aren’t disarming the people you should be worried about. You’re only disarming the people who would abide by the law anyway. The criminals, the ones that firearms could be used to defend against, would remain armed. As Penn Jillette put it, what if every woman in the United States was given a firearm? Assuming only **half** keep and carry their gun, who would rob or rape a woman knowing that there’s a fifty/fifty shot that she’s armed? A lot less people. In areas where concealed-carry laws are passed, there are always protesters crying out in fear. They predict that their towns will transform into the wild west, that fender-benders will turn into shootouts. It just doesn’t happen. Crime rates in those towns drop considerably. Finally, our founding fathers were revolutionaries. One of their complaints with the government they railed against was that government’s attempt to disarm them. They gave us the right to bear arms so that yes, we could defend our rights from our own government’s inevitable attempts to strip them from us. Edit: Oops. This post got in after the thread was closed. xD My point stands! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659/111 "2010-03-08T13:39:22Z")
Or I unlocked when I revised my post. Anyway… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-needs-guns-for-anything-anyway/531659.md?page=5)