# Who, or what, is your favorite villain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 2, 2023, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435 "2023-07-02T03:56:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/141 "2023-07-05T21:37:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In this story, the goblins clearly need permission of some sort to take Toby Sure, that doesn’t argue against others having done the same ritual - fact that there’s a formula to it that the goblins know seems to indicate it. > [@Miller](#): > > I assume they can’t just take any kid just because someone, somewhere, wants the kid gone Why? The goblins seem way more invested in the correct formula to lead me to that conclusion. My impression was always that a reading of the “spell” in reference to any suitable “you” would work. > [@Miller](#): > > I recognize that, in the still, the book looks physically new, but I think that’s because it’s a prop recently made for the movie, not because the book in-universe is supposed to be new. If Henson wanted it to look aged, he would have had FX age it up. The amount of detail put into the look of other things in his films would argue against its new-ish appearance being merely happenstance. But even if the book _is_ Victorian in origin, my point about it not being a dusty old relic stands. > [@Miller](#): > > it appears that she’s preparing for a school play I always got the impression she was just playing make-believe by herself. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/142 "2023-07-05T21:56:41Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > This reminds of my more favorite cartoon villains: [![](https://rlv.zcache.com/marvin_the_martian_upset_poster-r42b54e9caa9a4dd994b3700d763bdfec_wvy_8byvr_630.jpg?view_padding=%5B285%2C0%2C285%2C0%5D) ](https://rlv.zcache.com/marvin_the_martian_upset_poster-r42b54e9caa9a4dd994b3700d763bdfec_wvy_8byvr_630.jpg?view_padding=%5B285%2C0%2C285%2C0%5D) ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/143 "2023-07-05T22:02:27Z")
I always thought Dr. Zin was a cool villain, even when consistently getting his ass kicked by an 11 year old boy and his adopted Indian brother. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/144 "2023-07-05T23:09:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Don’t need to be “proven” - this is my view on it, and why I consider Jareth a villain. A point I conceded in my FIRST post to you? And one you are unwilling to grant anyone else. So I refuse to continue the hijack. So back to the actual topic of the thread, favorite villains. @Robot_Arm brings up a great subgroup of villains, the ineffective ones, often comically so. I’d like to add Invader Zim to the List - especially as he’s often self-thwarting. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/145 "2023-07-05T23:22:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I always got the impression she was just playing make-believe by herself. She appears to be trying to memorize lines, and is dressed like a medieval princess, so I assume she’s in a play in some context. Could just be into cosplay and trying to memorize a passage she likes for funsies, though. > [@MrDibble](#): > > If Henson wanted it to look aged, he would have had FX age it up. By the standards of what would have been observable on screen in 1986, I think he did. And something from the 19th century would definitely read as a “dusty old relic” to the kids in the target audience. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/146 "2023-07-05T23:36:42Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > @Robot_Arm brings up a great subgroup of villains, the ineffective ones, often comically so. Isn’t that lovely? Hmm? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/147 "2023-07-05T23:39:46Z")
Abandon ship! We struck an ice-boig and we’re sinkin fast! ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/148 "2023-07-06T02:00:03Z")
Sideshow Bob ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/149 "2023-07-06T04:54:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > I always got the impression she was just playing make-believe by herself. > > She appears to be trying to memorize lines, and is dressed like a medieval princess, so I assume she’s in a play in some context. Could just be into cosplay and trying to memorize a passage she likes for funsies, though. She’s definitely just playing, not doing it for a Play. It’s her thing, she’s a lonely kid who prefers fantasy worlds to the real world. She play-acts for her own amusement, then instead of just reading it, she lives it. Is it real or all just a dream? You can decide. But the adventure she goes on is definitely the same one as in the book. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/150 "2023-07-06T05:19:50Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > A point I conceded in my FIRST post to you? A concession undercut by your subsequent continued defense of his villainy as “just what fey do” > [@](#): > > And one you are unwilling to grant anyone else. “Kiddiefuckery and child theft are bad” isn’t really a point I’m willing to make concessions on. > [@Miller](#): > > By the standards of what would have been observable on screen in 1986, I think he did. I disagree. Look at just the detailing of Hoggle’s jerkin, or the objects in the Junk Lady’s collection. There are levels of things there beyond the immediately apparent, that add verisimilitude. > [@Miller](#): > > And something from the 19th century would definitely read as a “dusty old relic” to the kids in the target audience. It didn’t to me when I was a kid, at the time. Compare the eponymous book in _The Neverending Story_, which definitely did read as a relic. Just by having a bit of fading on the cover, and metal hardware. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/151 "2023-07-06T13:06:12Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Is it real or all just a dream? You can decide. Both, I think: The Goblin City and the Labyrinth and so on are all figments of her imagination… but no less real for being figments. ---
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/152 "2023-07-06T18:33:22Z")
No mention yet of Vizzini? Inconceivable! ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/153 "2023-07-06T22:35:23Z")
Wow. I was thinking of starting a thread like this. And since Dr. Doom and Lex Luthor have been mentioned, I’ll toss out a lesser known contender, Eclipso. Other villains can _be_ evil, but Eclipso _was_ evil. That is, a distillation of all the evil in a single normal human being. From TV, Frank Underwood and Benjamin Linus. From books, Gregg Stillson. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/154 "2023-07-07T01:43:41Z")
From children’s literature, Mr. and Mrs. Twit. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/155 "2023-07-07T02:22:00Z")
> [@Wilson](#): > > No mention yet of Vizzini? Inconceivable! Not a contender for the overall title. He did fine in talent and swimsuit, but his scores really dropped in the using-words-that-mean-what-you-think-they-mean competition. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/156 "2023-07-07T02:53:44Z")
Captain Dudley Smith. His eyes were the definition of cold. Hard to believe the same actor was Farmer Hoggett! Upvoting Keyser Soze. My daughter loves violent media. She asked who I thought the worst villain was. I quoted the “story I believe” speech. She was impressed, and scared. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecc23a/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada_Jr)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/157 "2023-07-07T03:21:23Z")
I want to speak up for **Xykon** , the Big Bad from The Order Of The Stick, which is followed by many on this message board. As the author says > …He’s completely and wholly unapologetically Evil, but more to the point, he’s kind of a dick. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/158 "2023-07-07T05:34:58Z")
All the H’s in this post got me thinking of Aitch, who is, after all, only a bit player in the brilliance that is an evil **Ben Kingsley** in _Sexy Beast_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/159 "2023-07-07T13:40:58Z")
Vizzini is only, at best, the third-best villain in The Princess Bride, after Count Rugen and Prince Humperdink. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435/160 "2023-07-07T15:56:06Z")
He’s basically a mook with aspirations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-or-what-is-your-favorite-villain/986435.md?page=9)