# Who owns a found object? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 4, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732 "2008-06-04T08:26:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/1 "2008-06-04T08:26:09Z")
I was reading archives at customerssuck, and came across [this thread](http://www.customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?t=4577&goto=nextnewest) about someone finding a cell phone and then demanding $100 to give it back. I’m wondering about the legality of finders keepers. If you can prove that something is yours (as with a cell phone, which has lots of identifying characteristics), I’m guessing that the person who found the object doesn’t really own it. However, could returning something to someone be considered a service, one that could be charged for? Clearly the woman in the story (if described accurately) is being a dick, but legally did the other woman who came to collect it commit theft (or theft of services) by not paying the woman the “agreed” upon sum? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/2 "2008-06-04T08:37:17Z")
[QUOTE=BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed] Clearly the woman in the story (if described accurately) is being a dick, but legally did the other woman who came to collect it commit theft (or theft of services) by not paying the woman the “agreed” upon sum? [/QUOTE] I can’t imagine how, but at any rate, it would seem to me to be a civil matter. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/3 "2008-06-04T13:31:40Z")
It’s called extortion. She can’t be held liable for paying a reward if it was extorted. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/4 "2008-06-04T14:18:49Z")
Aw, I thought this thread was going to be about cool objects people found. I have this sweet little cement statue… IANAL and it’s been years since my paralegal courses, but IIRC losing property does not mean the owner has surrendered ownership. This differs from, for example, garbage or property voluntarily abandoned. “Finders keepers” is not a sound legal doctrine. Think of the loophole that would create in anti-theft laws. “I didn’t steal this TV, I found it on the sidewalk, so finders keepers.” If sitcoms from my childhood are to be believed, the proper procedure is to turn over the found property to the police. If after a certain number of days the property isn’t claimed then you can claim it. No idea if that’s true, as the only time I ever found a significant amount of money the rightful owner (whose ID was in the envelope) turned up about 10 minutes later to claim it from me. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/5 "2008-06-04T15:53:27Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Aw, I thought this thread was going to be about cool objects people found. I have this sweet little cement statue… [/QUOTE] Dude! You found my sweet little cement statue!! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/6 "2008-06-04T16:29:40Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] Dude! You found my sweet little cement statue!! [/QUOTE] Unless you were a female art student in Madison in about 1998, it’s mine. And even if you were, finders keepers. ---
**Author:** ![Internut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Internut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Internut)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/7 "2008-06-04T16:48:46Z")
Somewhat related… I had a computer stolen from me years ago by someone I asked to hold onto it for me (was in the middle of moving and needed a spot for it for about 2 weeks). Their younger sister (age 17 or so) just took it and sold it, I guess… In any case it wasn’t there anymore. The cops said (rightfully so) that I couldn’t prove they had it in the first place. They stopped in at their house a couple times to fill out paperwork, but nothing ever happened. My friend was staying mum (her sister threatened her enough and she found it easier to just say screw it and ignore the whole thing). I could’ve just _said_ they had a computer of mine to screw with them, so I couldn’t prove anything. Anyway, never have anyone hold onto anything of yours ever. They could just say “whatcha talkin’ 'bout?” and keep it. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/8 "2008-06-04T16:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=Internut] They could just say “whatcha talkin’ 'bout?” and keep it. [/QUOTE] Man, tell me about it! There’s this dude, Otto. . . ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/9 "2008-06-04T17:09:55Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] IANAL and it’s been years since my paralegal courses, but IIRC losing property does not mean the owner has surrendered ownership. This differs from, for example, garbage or property voluntarily abandoned. “Finders keepers” is not a sound legal doctrine. Think of the loophole that would create in anti-theft laws. “I didn’t steal this TV, I found it on the sidewalk, so finders keepers.” [/QUOTE] How about, “I didn’t steal this car. I found it unattended in a parking lot, so ‘finders keepers’.” :dubious: Anyway, for the case in question, the woman who lost the phone is only assuming she left it in the restroom. The woman who found the phone could have actually stolen it from her bag. There would be no way to distinguish “finders” from thieves if this were allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/10 "2008-06-04T18:06:01Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] Man, tell me about it! There’s this dude, Otto. . . [/QUOTE] All right! Gah! You can _have_ your stupid little statue. Just drive to Madison from Pennsylvania and figure out which door to knock on and it’s all yours. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Them](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@The\_Them](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Them)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/11 "2008-06-05T07:02:59Z")
No longer have it, but small child The Them once found a big ol’ gold and diamond ring! Just laying there on the sidewalk. Being a good Cub Scout, he was going to turn it over to the cops for the aforemntioned grace period (30 days, IIRC) and then prolly claim it legally, free and clear. Then, lil’ The Them was informed that once handed to the cops, he would never see the thing again, nor would the original owner. There was nothing to identify the ring, aside from it being HUGE. Kinda like a pimp would wear, now I think of it. Such guys existed in that part of town. So, in many cases, it will be finders-keepers, simply because any prior ownership would be impossible to prove (and there would certainly have been multiple claimants for an object like this). The ring got sold years later during one of the family’s many financial crises. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/12 "2008-06-05T08:32:50Z")
An eagle skull. On a hike off-trail. It is TOO bad-ass. Will provide photographic evidence as needed. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/13 "2008-06-05T12:25:54Z")
[QUOTE=The Them] No longer have it, but small child The Them once found a big ol’ gold and diamond ring! Just laying there on the sidewalk. Being a good Cub Scout, he was going to turn it over to the cops for the aforemntioned grace period (30 days, IIRC) and then prolly claim it legally, free and clear. Then, lil’ The Them was informed that once handed to the cops, he would never see the thing again, nor would the original owner. There was nothing to identify the ring, aside from it being HUGE. Kinda like a pimp would wear, now I think of it. Such guys existed in that part of town. So, in many cases, it will be finders-keepers, simply because any prior ownership would be impossible to prove (and there would certainly have been multiple claimants for an object like this). The ring got sold years later during one of the family’s many financial crises. ☹ [/QUOTE] You got it back I take it? ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/14 "2008-06-05T12:40:24Z")
[QUOTE=Cicero] You got it back I take it? [/QUOTE] I don’t think he ever gave it away. When he says he was “informed” I don’t that was by the Police. If I’m reading it right. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/15 "2008-06-05T12:45:20Z")
[QUOTE=essell] I don’t think he ever gave it away. When he says he was “informed” I don’t that was by the Police. If I’m reading it right. [/QUOTE] Thanks- got it now 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/16 "2008-06-05T13:09:20Z")
[QUOTE=BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed] I’m wondering about the legality of finders keepers. If you can prove that something is yours (as with a cell phone, which has lots of identifying characteristics), I’m guessing that the person who found the object doesn’t really own it. However, could returning something to someone be considered a service, one that could be charged for? Clearly the woman in the story (if described accurately) is being a dick, but legally did the other woman who came to collect it commit theft (or theft of services) by not paying the woman the “agreed” upon sum? [/QUOTE] The finders keepers rule doesn’t apply against the kid who had it before you found it, at least in most cases: [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpossess910.htm](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpossess910.htm) There was probably no theft (nor any right to charge for return). A finder, in most cases is a gratuitous bailee. The services were not requested, and she’s holding property that does not belong to her as against the true owner. She has no lien in the property and has a duty to return it to the bailor on request. Taking the property back would not be criminal, although methods used to retrieve it could be. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Them](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@The\_Them](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Them)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/17 "2008-06-05T13:13:23Z")
No, I didn’t get it back. It was _sold_, as in permanently. Bought months of direly needed time! The cops, where I was, at that time, were not always men who conducted themselves to the highest standards. (Get the understatement? Huh? HUH?) And no, it wasn’t a cop who told me that; it was my Mom. Getting away from that. When I was 15, I found two(!) twenty dollar bills folded together on the sidewalk! These are not in my possesion anymore. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-a-found-object/451732/18 "2008-06-05T13:21:48Z")
[QUOTE=The Them] No, I didn’t get it back. It was _sold_, as in permanently. Bought months of direly needed time! The cops, where I was, at that time, were not always men who conducted themselves to the highest standards. (Get the understatement? Huh? HUH?) And no, it wasn’t a cop who told me that; it was my Mom. Getting away from that. When I was 15, I found two(!) twenty dollar bills folded together on the sidewalk! These are not in my possesion anymore. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Yes- it has been pointed out above.