# Who owns all that empty land? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 1, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477 "2007-12-01T19:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/1 "2007-12-01T19:17:03Z")
This is a strange and probably stupid question, but bear with me. I’m looking at a map of New Mexico. This is visible on any state map, but a bit more so in a big western state than, say, New Jersey. There’s huge areas of land that are, apparently, empty. Maybe there’s a lonely state road crossing through that area connecting the interstates, but besides from that, it’s just the tumbleweed out there. Who owns this land? The state? I don’t know why anyone would want to own it, at least in most cases in New Mexico, because unless you’re planning on getting dehydrated and sunburned it’s not really good for anything. But what if, hypothetically, someone wanted to build themselves a house out, say, [here](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&saddr=&daddr=35.266926,-105.665131&mra=mi&mrsp=0&sz=10&sll=35.242254,-105.634918&sspn=0.491257,0.933838&ie=UTF8&om=1&ll=35.245619,-105.650024&spn=1.964902,3.735352&z=8) Could they? Who would they buy the land from? Etc. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/2 "2007-12-01T19:28:37Z")
[http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/About\_BLM.2.html](http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/About_BLM.2.html) Here is a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![qubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f07891/32.png) [@qubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qubed)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/3 "2007-12-01T19:30:06Z")
As for as New Mexico goes, much of it is owned by the federal goverment. [41.8%](http://www.house.gov/hensarling/rsc/doc/Federal_Land_Ownership_05012005.pdf) [PDF Warning] ---
**Author:** ![qubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f07891/32.png) [@qubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qubed)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/4 "2007-12-01T19:35:24Z")
Also, there are some staggeringly huge private ranches. For example, Ted turner’s [Vermejo Park](http://www.vermejoparkranch.com/history.htm) has 588,000 acres, which constitutes 0.7% the land area of New Mexico. Just from that one ranch. So, it’s easy to see how the remaining 60% of the land is in private hands. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/5 "2007-12-01T20:07:58Z")
The gov’t owns most of Nevada through the BLM. Almost nothing is privately held except along major roads and in cities. It’s very different east of the mississippi where the BLM owns almost nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/6 "2007-12-01T20:16:18Z")
Get hold of a map from the BLM (Bureau of Land Management) that shows ownership information. Looking at my own area (southern Montana), the map shows state-owned land, BLM, National Park, National Forest, National Wilderness Area, Indian Reservation, and a lot of big ranches. Incidentally, when land out here was first divvied up, it was in chunks called “townships,” which consisted of 36 “sections.” A section is one square mile (640 acres), and a township is typically 6x6 miles. When each township was partitioned up for homesteaders, the state held back one section of it. Looking at our BLM map, there’s an irregular grid of 1-square-mile light blue squares all over it, representing that state-owned land. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/7 "2007-12-01T20:43:36Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] Get hold of a map from the BLM (Bureau of Land Management) that shows ownership information. Looking at my own area (southern Montana), the map shows state-owned land, BLM, National Park, National Forest, National Wilderness Area, Indian Reservation, and a lot of big ranches. Incidentally, when land out here was first divvied up, it was in chunks called “townships,” which consisted of 36 “sections.” A section is one square mile (640 acres), and a township is typically 6x6 miles. When each township was partitioned up for homesteaders, the state held back one section of it. Looking at our BLM map, there’s an irregular grid of 1-square-mile light blue squares all over it, representing that state-owned land. [/QUOTE] Some of the Montana “checkerboard” effect is from alternate sections granted to the railroads. The railroad land grants were enormous. Take a look at the map on this page: [http://memory.loc.gov/learn/features/timeline/riseind/railroad/grants.html](http://memory.loc.gov/learn/features/timeline/riseind/railroad/grants.html) ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/8 "2007-12-01T20:56:07Z")
There’s a bunch of good maps [here](http://nationalatlas.gov/printable/fedlands.html#list) detailing all federally owned land by agency for each state, and the entire US. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/9 "2007-12-01T22:48:39Z")
[QUOTE=treis] There’s a bunch of good maps [here](http://nationalatlas.gov/printable/fedlands.html#list) detailing all federally owned land by agency for each state, and the entire US. [/QUOTE] Oh, neat, thanks. Comparing the ownership map of New Mexico to my home state of New Jersey is absolutely mind-boggling. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/10 "2007-12-01T23:43:20Z")
I don’t know if this is the case in the US, but in Australia a lot of towns in marginal areas (you know the sort of town - boarded up shops, and Bruce Springsteen songs) will actually _give_ you land, often housing land right in the main street. The only condition is that you pay the “council rates” for local services such as garbage collection for a certain number of years. I’m guessing there must be similar things happening in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/11 "2007-12-02T00:10:22Z")
Less than one percent of the land in Alaska is [privately owned](http://www.conservationgiscenter.org/maps/html/landown.html). ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/12 "2007-12-02T00:21:03Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] I don’t know if this is the case in the US, but in Australia a lot of towns in marginal areas (you know the sort of town - boarded up shops, and Bruce Springsteen songs) will actually _give_ you land, often housing land right in the main street. The only condition is that you pay the “council rates” for local services such as garbage collection for a certain number of years. I’m guessing there must be similar things happening in the US. [/QUOTE] Ummmm…I seriously doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/13 "2007-12-02T00:25:31Z")
[QUOTE=alanak] Also, there are some staggeringly huge private ranches. For example, Ted turner’s [Vermejo Park](http://www.vermejoparkranch.com/history.htm) has 588,000 acres, which constitutes 0.7% the land area of New Mexico. Just from that one ranch. So, it’s easy to see how the remaining 60% of the land is in private hands. [/QUOTE] Actually, some of the remainder will also be owned by the state, rather than the federal, government. I just dug up a figure that NM has 9 million acres of land owned by the state - another 11% of the area. There may also be measurable amounts of real estate managed by county governments or special districts in some states. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/14 "2007-12-02T01:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Ummmm…I seriously doubt it. [/QUOTE] I don’t know. There are some towns in the upper midwest that are depopulating very rapidly and they have all kinds of weird incentives. I will try to find a cite but I know there were some in North Dakota where the population is disappearing so fast in some areas that they try all kinds of things to bring new people in like free land and sometimes houses. ---
**Author:** ![qubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f07891/32.png) [@qubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qubed)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/15 "2007-12-02T02:37:14Z")
[QUOTE=yabob] Actually, some of the remainder will also be owned by the state, rather than the federal, government. I just dug up a figure that NM has 9 million acres of land owned by the state - another 11% of the area. There may also be measurable amounts of real estate managed by county governments or special districts in some states. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I thought about that, but i didn’t think state/county/city owned land would amount to that much. Having grown up in a part of NM where little land is government owned, there’s a ridiculous number of huge ranches just out in the middle of nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/16 "2007-12-02T06:50:07Z")
Don’t forget that various Indian pueblos own quite a bit of land in New Mexico. The specific chunk marked on the Google map may be part of the King ranch, but I’m not sure how far north it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/17 "2007-12-02T18:16:38Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Ummmm…I seriously doubt it. [/QUOTE] Don’t be quite _ **so** _ skeptical… [Free land in Kansas and North Dakota.](http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/22/real_estate/buying_selling/thursday_freeland/) ---
**Author:** ![Miguel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@Miguel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miguel)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/18 "2007-12-02T18:31:06Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] This is a strange and probably stupid question, but bear with me. I’m looking at a map of New Mexico. This is visible on any state map, but a bit more so in a big western state than, say, New Jersey. There’s huge areas of land that are, apparently, empty. Maybe there’s a lonely state road crossing through that area connecting the interstates, but besides from that, it’s just the tumbleweed out there. Who owns this land? The state? I don’t know why anyone would want to own it, at least in most cases in New Mexico, because unless you’re planning on getting dehydrated and sunburned it’s not really good for anything. But what if, hypothetically, someone wanted to build themselves a house out, say, [here](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&saddr=&daddr=35.266926,-105.665131&mra=mi&mrsp=0&sz=10&sll=35.242254,-105.634918&sspn=0.491257,0.933838&ie=UTF8&om=1&ll=35.245619,-105.650024&spn=1.964902,3.735352&z=8) Could they? Who would they buy the land from? Etc. [/QUOTE] In Texas, I think it’s the opposite where the state owns most of the public land than the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/19 "2007-12-02T18:59:08Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Don’t be quite _ **so** _ skeptical… [Free land in Kansas and North Dakota.](http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/22/real_estate/buying_selling/thursday_freeland/) [/QUOTE] From your article: > [@](#): > > Although the federal government stopped giving away free land when it repealed the Homestead Act in 1976, cities, school districts, economic development groups and individuals in rural communities have been donating land for the cause. > > In Ellsworth County, for example, there are 23 lots available for free to individuals, assuming they’re pre-qualified to build a house that is at least 1,000 square feet and agree to build a house on the land within two years time. > In addition to the land, families with children stand to receive $1,500 to $3,000 toward a down payment when they buy in the area. “Each new child is worth an additional $6,000 to our school district from the state,” said Anita Hoffhines, executive director of Ellsworth County Economic Development. This is a little different than what I was thinking about when I expressed my skepticism but I do stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477/20 "2007-12-02T19:39:51Z")
[QUOTE=InternetLegend] Don’t forget that various Indian pueblos own quite a bit of land in New Mexico. The specific chunk marked on the Google map may be part of the King ranch, but I’m not sure how far north it goes. [/QUOTE] Right, but I’ve never seen a map where the various pueblos and reservations aren’t clearly marked. I was asking about all the land that isn’t marked in any way - the white space on maps. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-all-that-empty-land/428477.md?page=2)