# Who owns state national guard equipment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442 "2009-04-17T17:20:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/1 "2009-04-17T17:20:44Z")
This occurred to me because of Texas governor Rick Perry’s hints about secession, but this isn’t a debate, it’s a factual question. Clearly, the soldiers in state National Guards are paid by states and under the direction of the governors (although the budgeting is really done by the Pentagon). What about the equipment, though? Do Air National Guards really own the jets, or do the planes belong to the feds? What about other large equipment - artillery, armored personnel carriers, etc? Do the ships belong to the Navy National Guard, or are they ‘borrowed’ from the US Navy? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/2 "2009-04-17T17:27:06Z")
I am pretty sure the states do not pay for the equipment but I don’t know if they own it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/3 "2009-04-17T17:44:16Z")
The National Guard is governed by Federal Law, specifically Titles 10 and 32 of the US Code, and 32 explicitly says that [both the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard are under Federal control](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/32/usc_sec_32_00000104----000-.html): > [@](#): > > TITLE 32 \> CHAPTER 1 \> § 104 > > [snip] > > (b) Except as otherwise specifically provided in this title, the organization of the Army National Guard and the composition of its units shall be the same as those prescribed for the Army, subject, in time of peace, to such general exceptions as the Secretary of the Army may authorize; and the organization of the Air National Guard and the composition of its units shall be the same as those prescribed for the Air Force, subject, in time of peace, to such general exceptions as the Secretary of the Air Force may authorize. > > (c) To secure a force the units of which when combined will form complete higher tactical units, the President may designate the units of the National Guard, by branch of the Army or organization of the Air Force, to be maintained in each State, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the District of Columbia, Guam, and the Virgin Islands. However, no change in the branch, organization, or allotment of a unit located entirely within a State may be made without the approval of its governor. > > (d) To maintain appropriate organization and to assist in training and instruction, the President may assign the National Guard to divisions, wings, and other tactical units, and may detail commissioned officers of the National Guard or of the Regular Army or the Regular Air Force, as the case may be, to command those units. However, the commanding officer of a unit organized wholly within a State, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the District of Columbia, Guam, or the Virgin Islands may not be displaced under this subsection. That’s only one part of the law, but I can’t interpret it any other way than that the Federal Government effectively controls each state’s National Guard. That almost certainly means the equipment associated with each National Guard unit is ultimately owned by the Federal Government. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/4 "2009-04-17T17:48:48Z")
On 9/11 the only jets actually patrolling the eastern US skies were Air National Guard jets. (there may have been AF jets doing training runs too) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/5 "2009-04-17T18:30:38Z")
> [@bup](#): > > What about the equipment, though? Do Air National Guards really own the jets, or do the planes belong to the feds? What about other large equipment - artillery, armored personnel carriers, etc? Do the ships belong to the Navy National Guard, or are they ‘borrowed’ from the US Navy? All that stuff is bought and owned by the Federal government. As far as major equipment goes, the states basically don’t pay anything. From time to time Uncle Sam will direct National Guard equipment to one place or another, such as after the invasion of Iraq, a lot of trucks used by the National Guard was left in Iraq for other deploying units to use. When the states then complained about being under-equipped for state missions, like disaster response, the Feds just bought more trucks, radios, and whathaveyou. If some governor had demanded “his” equipment back, he probably would have received a pat on the head. ETA: There is no Navy National Guard. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/6 "2009-04-17T19:05:35Z")
As with most things, this doesn’t have a simple answer. It is true that the feds own the National Guard equipment - but in many states there is a separate militia variously called a Home Guard, State Defense Force or State Militia. These units have surplus federal equipment or new stuff bought by the state, cannot be federalized, and are under the control of the governor. At least two states include naval militias with active boats - [like New York.](http://dmna.state.ny.us/index.php?id=1217857320) ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/7 "2009-04-17T19:26:36Z")
Some people here in NC tried to start up a militia but it did not last long. A funny aspect was it was 75% officers. 🙂 Guess almost nobody wanted to be a private. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/8 "2009-04-17T19:29:30Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > but in many states there is a separate militia variously called a Home Guard, State Defense Force or State Militia. These units have surplus federal equipment or new stuff bought by the state, cannot be federalized, and are under the control of the governor. Can you give more examples? I’ve never heard of them before. The NYS navy is fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/9 "2009-04-17T19:39:26Z")
The militia that was here in NC was not run by the state, it was just a bunch of guys who started it on their own. The state asked them to disband and they did. After Tim McVeigh the word “militia” now has a bad connotation for many people. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/10 "2009-04-17T19:54:53Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > Can you give more examples? I’ve never heard of them before. The NYS navy is fascinating. [This link is probably a good start.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces) I don’t rely on Wikipedia for everything, but you can always follow the links. I live in Virginia, and I know that our State Defense Force is pretty active. It includes units that man the armories when the National Guard is deployed and are also used for disasters within the state. Special units include communications battalions and an air wing. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/11 "2009-04-17T20:40:46Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > …At least two states include naval militias with active boats - [like New York.](http://dmna.state.ny.us/index.php?id=1217857320) Georgia has a naval militia still on the books, but it evidently hasn’t done anything or even had any personnel since 1911: [hsgng.org](http://www.hsgng.org/pages/ganavy.htm) ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/12 "2009-04-17T21:33:06Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > [This link is probably a good start.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces) I don’t rely on Wikipedia for everything, but you can always follow the links. > > I live in Virginia, and I know that our State Defense Force is pretty active. It includes units that man the armories when the National Guard is deployed and are also used for disasters within the state. > > Special units include communications battalions and an air wing. Interesting. They seem, to my eyes, to be non-military, despite having military organization. For instance: > [@](#): > > With the exception of the California State Military Reserve, the SDF is unarmed. Most SDFs lack the training standards to be armed, and state legislators have long feared legal consequences for arming an under-trained force. A 2006 study by the U.S. Freedom Foundation[4] recommended minimum standards for State Defense Forces including weapons training, but the report has been largely ignored. Call me crazy, but an unarmed “defense force” or “militia” isn’t much different from the Boy Scouts or the Salvation Army. ---
**Author:** ![BuzzSaw101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@BuzzSaw101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuzzSaw101)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-state-national-guard-equipment/493442/13 "2009-04-18T03:55:39Z")
Not surprisingly, South Carolina has a state militia. [South Carolina State Guard - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina_State_Guard). [http://sg.sc.gov/](http://sg.sc.gov/)