# Who owns the right to medieval or ancient writings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 23, 2003, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813 "2003-11-23T06:03:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NotSuitableforChildren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@NotSuitableforChildren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotSuitableforChildren)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/1 "2003-11-23T06:03:41Z")
Who owns the rights to ancient or medieval writings, i.e. the works of Shakespeare, Homer, or Dante? If nobody owns them, couldn’t I write my own version of them at will? Could I rewrite The Illiad so the Trojan War was fought over a lifetime supply of trojan condoms, just because nobody from Homer’s family is alive to stop me? What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/2 "2003-11-23T06:32:34Z")
Original (or copied) texts of ancient works are owned by whoever possesses them. The content of ancient works are in the public domain, meaning that you could, indeed, rewrite them to your heart’s content. (Many have already been modernized, re-worked, or had their titles or themes stolen for the use of modern writers. (Look at all the myriad retellings of the story of King Arthiur or even of the Three Musketeers.) Translations of ancient works are considered to be new works of the translators and are generally protected by current (and currently expanding) copyright laws. ---
**Author:** ![NotSuitableforChildren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac8455/32.png) [@NotSuitableforChildren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotSuitableforChildren)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/3 "2003-11-23T06:47:06Z")
What about the Bible? Although it is a translated work, the English version has been around for 500-600 years. So I could take the Christian Bible and re-write it to permit homosexuality and masturbation? _Evil lightbulb in head_ ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/4 "2003-11-23T07:31:35Z")
Sure. Knock yourself out. Go nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/5 "2003-11-23T11:00:39Z")
Works out of copyright are in the public domain. No one owns them. It used to be the purpose of the copyright law to increase the human intellectual capital. The original US copyright law was for 14 years, renewable once for another 14 years. This gave the author a reasonable period for a return on his works and then the works enter the public domain. The constitution says only that copyright shall be for a limited period and the supreme court has said that as long as it is limited in some way, it can be for as long as congress decrees. Since Congress keeps extending the period, almost nothing done since about 1930 is out of copyright and may never be. Of course, nearly all these works are owned by corporations and so is congress. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/6 "2003-11-23T12:00:26Z")
By the way, Shakespeare did not live in the medieval era, which ended in the mid-1300s. He was 250 years after that, during the Renaissance era. However, _translations_ of texts that are in the public domain can be copyrighted, such as translations of the Bible, Homer, or even translating Chaucer from Middle English to Modern English. ---
**Author:** ![Alcibiades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cab0a1/32.png) [@Alcibiades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alcibiades)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/7 "2003-11-23T12:02:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hari Seldon \* > \*\*Works out of copyright are in the public domain. No one owns them. It used to be the purpose of the copyright law to increase the human intellectual capital. The original US copyright law was for 14 years, renewable once for another 14 years. This gave the author a reasonable period for a return on his works and then the works enter the public domain. The constitution says only that copyright shall be for a limited period and the supreme court has said that as long as it is limited in some way, it can be for as long as congress decrees. Since Congress keeps extending the period, almost nothing done since about 1930 is out of copyright and may never be. Of course, nearly all these works are owned by corporations and so is congress. \*\* One of the better philosophical arguments against the Sonny Bono Act. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/8 "2003-11-23T12:08:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hari Seldon \* > **Since Congress keeps extending the period, almost nothing done since about 1930 is out of copyright and may never be.** Anything originally published in the U.S. before **1923** is out of copyright. Actually, there are [thousands](http://www.retrofilm.com/) of motion pictures and television episodes, and thousands of newspaper and magazine issues published between 1923-1963 that have fallen into the public domain when the copyright owners failed to renew the copyright. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/9 "2003-11-23T13:45:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > **By the way, Shakespeare did not live in the medieval era, which ended in the mid-1300s.** Nitpick : The usual date for the end of the medieval era is 1492, not the mid-1300s. Sometimes, 1453 (fall of Constantinople) is used intead. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/10 "2003-11-23T14:05:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\*Nitpick : The usual date for the end of the medieval era is 1492, not the mid-1300s. Sometimes, 1453 (fall of Constantinople) is used intead. \*\* And just to complicate matters, we English-literature geek types tend to use 1485 (accession of the first Tudor monarch). It goes without saying that all of these dates are thoroughly arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/11 "2003-11-23T14:12:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NotSuitableforChildren \* > \*\*What about the Bible? Although it is a translated work, the English version has been around for 500-600 years. So I could take the Christian Bible and re-write it to permit homosexuality and masturbation? > > _Evil lightbulb in head_ \*\* I don’t know if you can claim its an accurate translation though - I’d hope that deliberately mistranslating something with malicious intent, and selling it as accurate, was illegal _somehow_. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/12 "2003-11-23T14:20:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hari Seldon \* > \*\*Since Congress keeps extending the period, almost nothing done since about 1930 is out of copyright and may never be. Of course, nearly all these works are owned by corporations and so is congress. \*\* Exactly right. What’s more, there are a number of very good works which will never be reprinted or otherwise see the light of day because they are in copyright hell, such as the cult horror classic novel “Lets Go Play At the Adams’”. The fans would LOVE to see a reissue, but the people who own the copyright don’t care, so the work languishes. Happens surprisingly often. As copyright law is now written, it is actually a barrier to intellectual and cultural enrichment. Check out Japan for a situation where laxer copyright laws allow much more creativity and general goodness. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/13 "2003-11-23T19:25:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > **there are a number of very good works which will never be reprinted or otherwise see the light of day because they are in copyright hell, such as the cult horror classic novel “Lets Go Play At the Adams’”. The fans would LOVE to see a reissue, but the people who own the copyright don’t care, so the work languishes.** Fourteen used copies are available right now at [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com), starting at $8.95. Another copy is on sale at eBay. The public library in my medium-sized city has three copies. The library at the local university also has a copy. Not exactly impossible to get. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/14 "2003-11-23T19:33:35Z")
BTW, _Let’s Go Play at the Adams’_ was first published in 1974. Are you advocating that works less than 30 years old should be out of copyright and in the public domain? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/15 "2003-11-23T19:40:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Could I rewrite The Illiad so the Trojan War was fought over a lifetime supply of trojan condoms, just because nobody from Homer’s family is alive to stop me? What’s up with that? Surprisingly, [bibliophage](http://www.teemings.com/issue04/idiad.html) missed that reference. But he’s got sex showing up in the story in just about every other way you can imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/16 "2003-11-23T19:46:34Z")
What about board games? It’s 99 years now? 100? Will Monopoly be in the public domain come 2030? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/17 "2003-11-23T19:54:22Z")
To complicate matters, manuscripts that have never been published are generally not in the public domain. The copyright clock doesn’t start to run until the work is first published. You generally need to obtain permission of the owner of the manuscript to publish or quote from them. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/18 "2003-11-23T20:01:36Z")
For unpublished works (such as newly discovered manuscripts) the above is not correct. For Europe see Directive 93/98/EEC of 29 october 1993 (at [EUR-Lex](http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/index.html)): > [@](#): > > Article 4 > Protection of previously unpublished works > Any person who, after the expiry of copyright protection, for the first time lawfully publishes or lawfully communicates to the public a previously unpublished work, shall benefit from a protection equivalent to the economic rights of the author. The term of protection of such rights shall be 25 years from the time when the work was first lawfully published or lawfully communicated to the public. For the U.S. see [Title 17 of the U.S. Code](http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html#303) > [@](#): > > § 303. Duration of copyright: Works created but not published or copyrighted before January 1, 19785 > > (a) Copyright in a work created before January 1, 1978, but not theretofore in the public domain or copyrighted, subsists from January 1, 1978, and endures for the term provided by section 302. In no case, however, shall the term of copyright in such a work expire before December 31, 2002; and, if the work is published on or before December 31, 2002, the term of copyright shall not expire before December 31, 2047. > > (b) The distribution before January 1, 1978, of a phonorecord shall not for any purpose constitute a publication of the musical work embodied therein. This looks as if a similar rule applies to the U.S., but I leave it to a U.S. lawyer to explain this properly. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/19 "2003-11-23T20:02:43Z")
Bah, fecking moderators. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813/20 "2003-11-23T20:30:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > \*\*To complicate matters, manuscripts that have never been published are generally not in the public domain. The copyright clock doesn’t start to run until the work is first published. \*\* False, at least under U.S. copyright law. For unpublished works, the copyright term is the life of the author plus 70 years. For an unpublished work made anonymously or for hire, the term is 120 years from the date of creation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-owns-the-right-to-medieval-or-ancient-writings/214813.md?page=2)