# Who pays for free school lunches? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 1, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083 "2017-01-01T19:16:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/21 "2017-01-02T02:44:16Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How about everybody in NY City and Washington D.C. (and other places) that don’t drive at all? What are they paying to the federal government? Alcohol, airline tickets, and telephone service are also subject to federal excise tax. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/22 "2017-01-02T04:11:29Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Something like 47 percent don’t pay any federal taxes at all. “We all do” is false. > [@wevets](#): > > Income taxes are not the only federal taxes. There are excise taxes, customs duties, etc. > > Income taxes don’t even provide the majority of funding for the federal government - they’re at about 40% of [federal revenue](http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/sites/default/files/3.1.1-figure4.png). They are perhaps the single largest chunk - a plurality of funding rather than a majority. > [@slash2k](#): > > Everybody who buys gasoline or cigarettes, for starters. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How about everybody in NY City and Washington D.C. (and other places) that don’t drive at all? What are they paying to the federal government? > [@boffking](#): > > Alcohol, airline tickets, and telephone service are also subject to federal excise tax. **Moderating** Let’s drop the hijack about who pays federal taxes and stick to the question in the OP. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/23 "2017-01-02T07:07:38Z")
And, AIUI, the School Lunch program was not motivated by compassion - it was motivated by the scrawny recruits the DOD was getting - a childhood of malnutrition produces really horrible cannon fodder. You may not be able to do anything about the crap the kids get at home, but you CAN at least get one decent meal in them at lunch. (and Food Stamps were created by the Dept of Agriculture - to reduce the mountains of cereals they bought as part of the Price Supports) Actual “Charity for Charities sake” is rather rare in the Federal govt - esp before LBJ’s “Great Society” program. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/24 "2017-01-02T09:13:40Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > And, AIUI, the School Lunch program was not motivated by compassion - it was motivated by the scrawny recruits the DOD was getting - a childhood of malnutrition produces really horrible cannon fodder. > You may not be able to do anything about the crap the kids get at home, but you CAN at least get one decent meal in them at lunch. > > (and Food Stamps were created by the Dept of Agriculture - to reduce the mountains of cereals they bought as part of the Price Supports) > > Actual “Charity for Charities sake” is rather rare in the Federal govt - esp before LBJ’s “Great Society” program. If your time horizon is far enough, any childhood starvation or malnutrition is a pure wastage of potential human capital, which is an important input into any kind of economy, such that preventing it is just as important as preventing degradation of the roads or farmland. Preventing adults from starving is similarly important, on a somewhat shorter time horizon, and preventing post-retirement adults from starving is important from a morale standpoint if nothing else. (Plus, of course, you could always extend the retirement age, moving them back into the previous category.) In short, it’s only “charity for charity’s sake” if your time horizon only extends to the next quarterly report. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/25 "2017-01-02T20:25:14Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > There are a number of free breakfast and lunch sites for children during summer breaks in my city, usually operated out of a church, school, or other public building with a commercial kitchen. These sites allow any children who show up to eat for free, and adults are requested to pay a donation to reduce the possibility of them taking advantage of it, since they are not considered public soup kitchens. There’s also the controversial “backpack” programs, where qualified children are given packaged food to take home on the weekend. That program had to be stopped in my old town because authorities discovered that most of the food was not being eaten by the kids; it was eaten by the parents, or more commonly traded for meth and other drugs. :mad: > > This may be where some of those resources are going. Once the food leaves our hands, we have no control over how it is used. I know that in the larger program in this city, the philosophy is that what is sent home can often become the basis or supplement for a larger meal to feed the family. For instance, whenever it is “chili week”, that is accompanied by a box of mac & cheese, as the two can be combined to stretch a meal further than either of the items alone. We believe that the vetting done for us by our local elementary school is rigorous, because while a reported 25% of the kids there are eligible for the school lunch program, only 24 kids have been identified as being in crisis. That doesn’t mean there may not be abuse of our good natures, but at some point you have to take things at face value and tamp down the cynicism. If even one kid can rise above the misery of poverty and need, it’s worth it to me. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/26 "2017-01-02T20:54:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It costs money to administer programs like this, and a large part of that administration is spent on figuring out just who should and should not qualify. Once a school gets above a certain threshold of needy students, it becomes cheaper to just offer the free lunch to everyone, so you can cut the costs of vetting. My dad moonlighted as a substitute teacher for many years. Towards the end of him doing this, in the late 1990s, there was a program where schools that had more than a certain percentage of free-lunch kids would get fruit, 1 piece per child per day, and all the kids could take it with their lunch regardless of how they paid for it. Technically, all leftover fruit was supposed to be discarded at the end of the day, but the lunch ladies would put it aside and the teachers would bring bags to take the extras home. Most of the time, it was oranges, apples (yeah, Delicious :rolleyes: ) and bananas, with peaches or plums occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/27 "2017-01-02T20:57:36Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > And, AIUI, the School Lunch program was not motivated by compassion - it was motivated by the scrawny recruits the DOD was getting - a childhood of malnutrition produces really horrible cannon fodder. > You may not be able to do anything about the crap the kids get at home, but you CAN at least get one decent meal in them at lunch. > > (and Food Stamps were created by the Dept of Agriculture - to reduce the mountains of cereals they bought as part of the Price Supports) > > Actual “Charity for Charities sake” is rather rare in the Federal govt - esp before LBJ’s “Great Society” program. WIC is also an agricultural program; IIRC it was done at least in part to get rid of a surplus of milk. It’s still a great program. My mother grew up in a small town and usually went home for lunch, but would sometimes stay if there was a train on the tracks between the school and her house. During WW II, when she was a grade-schooler, that school often served Peanut Butter Soup - yes, peanut butter mixed with either milk or (more likely) water and heated up. :eek: Even the kids who were starving were hesitant to eat that. There used to be a small African grocery in my town, and one product they had was “Peanut Butter For Soup”. I do know that peanuts are a staple food in some parts of Africa, and for reasons that are still being researched, peanut allergy is unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/28 "2017-01-02T22:27:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **nearwildheaven** : > > Most of the time, it was oranges, apples (yeah, Delicious ) and bananas, with peaches or plums occasionally. I’ve seen a similar program in Cleveland that seemed to favor variety, including such exotic fruits as starfruit. Though you can guess how popular unfamiliar fruits were with a bunch of middle-schoolers. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/29 "2017-01-03T02:58:27Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I volunteered at a food pantry one summer when I was in college. It was a very interesting experience, and the biggest surprise to me was who used it the most. > > More than 50% of their clientele were senior citizens. That kind of food is easy to chew. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/30 "2017-01-03T05:10:42Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Something like 47 percent don’t pay any federal taxes at all. “We all do” is false. No 47% don’t pay federal income tax. And many of those do pay Social Security tax. Others of those are retired and did pay income tax before retiring. Still others are students. And very possibly Donald Trump was counted in that 47% in one or more years. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/31 "2017-01-03T05:17:33Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Something like 47 percent don’t pay any federal taxes at all. “We all do” is false. To get to 47% you need to include people that have paid federal tax, retirees, and those that will pay federal tax, students. That number is highly disingenuous, which I’m sure you already knew. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/32 "2017-01-03T05:29:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve seen a similar program in Cleveland that seemed to favor variety, including such exotic fruits as starfruit. Though you can guess how popular unfamiliar fruits were with a bunch of middle-schoolers. The only fruits we have ever included are those with rinds or hard peels, primarily bananas, oranges, and mandarins. We stopped putting in fresh fruits this year and opted for the dried variety to eliminate spoilage. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/33 "2017-01-03T15:27:23Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > No 47% don’t pay federal income tax. And many of those do pay Social Security tax. Others of those are retired and did pay income tax before retiring. Still others are students. And very possibly Donald Trump was counted in that 47% in one or more years. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > To get to 47% you need to include people that have paid federal tax, retirees, and those that will pay federal tax, students. That number is highly disingenuous, which I’m sure you already knew. _ahem_ See mod note above. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/34 "2017-01-04T01:00:43Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The only fruits we have ever included are those with rinds or hard peels, primarily bananas, oranges, and mandarins. We stopped putting in fresh fruits this year and opted for the dried variety to eliminate spoilage. The program I’m talking about provided fruit for the students to eat at lunch, not to take home. It was the staff who did that even though they technically weren’t supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/35 "2017-01-04T01:31:26Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > No 47% don’t pay federal income tax. And many of those do pay Social Security tax. Others of those are retired and did pay income tax before retiring. Still others are students. And very possibly Donald Trump was counted in that 47% in one or more years. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > To get to 47% you need to include people that have paid federal tax, retirees, and those that will pay federal tax, students. That number is highly disingenuous, which I’m sure you already knew. **Moderator Note** See my mod note in post #22. Let’s not further hijack this into a discussion of who pays federal taxes. No warning issued, but additional posts of this kind may be subject to one. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/36 "2017-01-04T02:39:12Z")
The OP asked who pays. The answer is the federal government financed through taxes and borrowing. Why exactly is “who pay taxes?” a hijack while what kinds of fruit are distributed, who does or doesn’t take that fruit home, and all the other points raised not hijacks? The first is obviously much more related to the OP than the latter are? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/37 "2017-01-04T03:55:17Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > The OP asked who pays. The answer is the federal government financed through taxes and borrowing. Why exactly is “who pay taxes?” a hijack while what kinds of fruit are distributed, who does or doesn’t take that fruit home, and all the other points raised not hijacks? The first is obviously much more related to the OP than the latter are? The OP’s question was answered quickly. The rest was ancillary discussion, with my first post being in response to **Broomstick** ’s first post. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/38 "2017-01-04T14:11:32Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > The OP asked who pays. The answer is the federal government financed through taxes and borrowing. Why exactly is “who pay taxes?” a hijack while what kinds of fruit are distributed, who does or doesn’t take that fruit home, and all the other points raised not hijacks? The first is obviously much more related to the OP than the latter are? **Moderator Note** If you have a disagreement with moderation, please open a new thread in ATMB. Do not discuss moderation here. “Who pays taxes” is a subject that is likely to become highly contentious and is best suited to Great Debates. A discussion of what fruits are included in school lunches is much less likely to become heated. Should it become an issue, I will take appropriate action. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083/39 "2017-01-04T15:56:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > A discussion of what fruits are included in school lunches is much less likely to become heated. Clearly you are unfamiliar with the apples vs oranges controversy. That one can get quite heated, although not to the extent it did for [bananas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-pays-for-free-school-lunches/776083.md?page=1)