# Who polices the police, or What The Air Marshalls Do. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 14, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400 "2006-02-14T03:56:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/21 "2006-02-14T18:33:49Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Interesting that the actions of two men who were caught and are being prosecuted by the US Attorny’s office somehow indicate that the hundreds of other officers are somehow corrupt and out of control. > > I see the fallibility of two men who’s illigal activities were discovered show that the department is capable of policing themselves. Man, you should hear the stories I hear from my forgien born coworkers about the police back home. :eek: l Just a few bad apples, then? There seems to be a lot of that going around. I wonder if any of this is acutually due to badly-trained, badly-screened men being given positions of authority? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/22 "2006-02-14T20:36:26Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > 1. Make them pass through TSA Screening. See, nobody BUT TSA screeners can see those X Ray machines. Who would know but them, if an Air Marshall is walking through. It is not as though that group is the only group passing through TSA checkpoints on a daily basis who are carrying firearms. We all know this to be true- law enforcement folks fly **all the time** with weapons AND ammunition. Actually law enforcement officers bypass the TSA Screening. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Just a few bad apples, then? > > There seems to be a lot of that going around. Where else? I mean screening for the FBI takes it down from 600k applicants to 500 folks off to Quantico. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/23 "2006-02-14T20:41:57Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Actually law enforcement officers bypass the TSA Screening. Well then, we’ve identified the weak link in the entire system, now haven’t we ? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/24 "2006-02-14T21:45:16Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Well then, we’ve identified the weak link in the entire system, now haven’t we ? 🙂 I’m more worried about checked baggage screening these days. I don’t think that gets checked nearly as much as it should. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/25 "2006-02-14T22:52:14Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Fair enough. I’m not inclined to agree. First of all, for the fifty-thousandth fucking time, refer to Post # 6- I am not painting with a broad brush accusing the thousands, is it, of Air Marshalls of being criminals. Jesus Christ, who’s painting now? As for post number 6, all I really read in that pertaining to this was you admitting you were painting with a broad brush but qualifying it by saying, what amounts to, “I’m sure it’s not really this bad.” > [@](#): > > What would I prefer? > > 1. Random and frequent drug testing. Not of bodily fluids alone. Of clothing, baggage and personal effects. Anything that will show that they’re carrying contraband. > > 2. More frequent updates on background checks on Air Marshalls. If they are updated every 5 years, make it once a year. Not very hard these days to do that. Who are they spending time with? Who are they calling on their cellular phones? Drug dealers. Hmm. > > 3. Make them pass through TSA Screening. See, nobody BUT TSA screeners can see those X Ray machines. Who would know but them, if an Air Marshall is walking through. It is not as though that group is the only group passing through TSA checkpoints on a daily basis who are carrying firearms. We all know this to be true- law enforcement folks fly **all the time** with weapons AND ammunition. So? Make the Air Marshalls pass through screening, including having their bags examined. Cause, yanno, packs of bills and kilo’s of coke, that kind of jumps out to a screener. I agree with all of this. I think Air Marshalls should probably be checked in just as rigorously if not more rigorously than regular passengers. I’m not saying they need to stand in the same lines as us necessarily (although it wouldn’t hurt if their job is to blend in) but their stuff should indeed be inspected. I also agree with 1. and 2. > [@](#): > > You said, what do I want- stricter regulations? Yes, exactly that. That’s why I asked, " Who polices the police? It is NOT going to cost millions to make those folks pass through TSA Screening. I know it’s not. You know it’s not. Cool. Glad to see you’re making a point, it’s one I agree with. > [@](#): > > And, you know what? A rant goes in the Pit. A logical debate based deeply in cite and example goes into G.D. I pitted, and here it is, and yet I am offering a few suggestions as to what I really do wish would go down in the coming months and years. You can act (within reason) how you choose in the Pit versus in GD, that doesn’t mean there is any virtue in _not_ making some form of reasonable debate when it’s definitely a topic that could be well-served by one. > [@](#): > > Do I think anything will change? Of course not. However, you attack me for writing a post that shows anger and dismay at a crime like this? You are correct- drivers drive drunk, etc. etc. All of your examples are splendidly correct. I attacked you because your post was a rambling mess that was ultimately inane and generalizing. I’m glad to see you’ve cleaned up your argument and I have no more criticism to offer on that. [qupte]There are millions of registered drivers in the U.S.A. There are, what was it, a few thousand Air Marshalls? These are **not** regular private folks. They indeed must be held to a higher standard. I call bullshit on even using drivers, or toll takers, or airplane mechanics as an analogy. ( Pilots? GOOD analogy. Their level of responsibility is higher than most folks’ jobs, IMHO. ) [/QUOTE] I agreed that Air Marshalls need to be held to a higher standard in my first post. I never claimed they were private fokls. I never used toll takers as an analogy. I think airplane mechanics make a good analogy of people who have a higher responsibility than most folks. If these guys don’t do their jobs right, people can die. Drivers aren’t held to a higher standard than “ordinary people” mainly because drivers _are_ ordinary people. I was just highlighting how just because you put your life in their hands isn’t reaosn enough to hold someone to a higher standard. You put your life into the hands of others all the time. Some have a more direct and important job in this regard though, and law enforcement officers are one of those classes of people. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/26 "2006-02-15T14:46:17Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > AI agree with all of this. I think Air Marshalls should probably be checked in just as rigorously if not more rigorously than regular passengers. I’m not saying they need to stand in the same lines as us necessarily (although it wouldn’t hurt if their job is to blend in) but their stuff should indeed be inspected. I do not know how much you fly, but from personal experience I can tell you that standing in line at security is very much a “head’s-up” situation for me. I nudge my bag along with my foot, I look at the people around me. I watch up front to see what is happening at the booths and tables. If something were to occur, I would want to see it as it unfolded- no matter what the severity. Having said that, I have routinely picked out Air Marshalls as they move into a security area. They are dressed as normal business folk. They carry small bags, but nicely detailed. Real leather, or a fine cloth suitcase and a briefcase/laptop bag. Nothing to overly encumber them. How do I pick em out? They’re the “businesspeople” who walk around the TSA checkpoints instead of through them. I figured I was being overly suspicious about them, but I’d seen a few who fit that pattern do just that. Then, on a flight from NY to Las Vegas, I was asked by a flight attendant to goo and speak to a gentleman in the back of the plane, in the galley. He was an Air Marshall. I’d seen him circumvent the TSA checkpoint. After the publicity of this case, it feels like their carry-on bags are now akin to Diplomatic Pouches, which can be carried by courriers without inspection. ( or, could be pre-9/11. I don’t know if those rules have changed.) **kidchameleon** , I agree. My cases are routinely x-rayed and inspected but that is because they contain electronics and battery packs which truly do look like explosive packs surrounded by wiring. Some airports do put all bags through x-ray screening, but not all. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/27 "2006-02-15T15:08:00Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Having said that, I have routinely picked out Air Marshalls as they move into a security area. They are dressed as normal business folk. They carry small bags, but nicely detailed. Real leather, or a fine cloth suitcase and a briefcase/laptop bag. Nothing to overly encumber them. How do I pick em out? They’re the “businesspeople” who walk around the TSA checkpoints instead of through them. They could be FBI or DEA agents travelling, too. > [@](#): > > **kidchameleon** , I agree. My cases are routinely x-rayed and inspected but that is because they contain electronics and battery packs which truly do look like explosive packs surrounded by wiring. Some airports do put all bags through x-ray screening, but not all. I’d also like to see them use more chemical and canine sniffers. And the new gamma imaging equipment when that becomes feasable. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/28 "2006-02-15T15:49:14Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Then, on a flight from NY to Las Vegas, I was asked by a flight attendant to goo and speak to a gentleman in the back of the plane, in the galley. He was an Air Marshall. I’d seen him circumvent the TSA checkpoint. Just curious, why were you asked to go and speak to the Air Marshall? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/29 "2006-02-17T00:23:06Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I’d also like to see them use more chemical and canine sniffers. And the new gamma imaging equipment when that becomes feasable. They do. They use the white tyvek-lookin’ oval fabric swipe disks. They then insert the disk into a reader, which scans for traces of various things. I was flagged leaving L.A.X. last year by TSA when they swiped my case, and found traces of explosives. They opened the case ( with me sorta being able to see what they were doing, from across a barrier ), and examined everything. More traces came up. They took my info, name, ID and then sealed the case up- checked it, and let me fly. My valid explanation as to why there were traces went, uh, unabsorbed by the TSA supervisor who took my info down. No sweat. I KNEW why it was on the gear, and I didn’t have anything to worry about. Got a LOT of nervous looks from the other people waiting their turn though. 🙂 Flying out of Charlotte a couple of years ago, heading to…hmmm… Ft. Lauderdale, I think. EARLY in the a.m. There was an officer with a drug-sniffing dog and man, he just kept going up and down the lines that had formed by 5:45am. Just kept sniffing, looking, walking up and down. I’d no idea why. Turns out a few days before there had been a huge drug bust there, so they were especially up on canine surveillance. The gamma imaging stuff looks very, very cool. Me, I’m a big rights to privacy fan but man, image away when it involves me, strangers and an airplane at 38,000 feet ! ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/30 "2006-02-17T00:26:48Z")
And, because I find it sad and ironic and relevant, what happens to [this guy who just got peppered with steel pellets](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7112572#post7112572) when he goes through airport security??? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/31 "2006-02-18T05:56:29Z")
Need a link check on aisle #4 ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/32 "2006-02-18T06:32:44Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Who gets to police the Air Marshalls? The Space Rangers. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/33 "2006-02-18T16:50:32Z")
You referering to my link just above your post? No link check in aisle # 4 needed. I posted a link through to the exact thread I wished to. You’ve got dozens of steel pellets in your body, how in the world do you make it through the metal detector. It was a valid link. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/34 "2006-02-18T17:29:43Z")
Well, last night the link would not work. Must have been an hamster thing. Your statement of what you were linking to was what I thought you were going for but that you might not know you link was wonkey but it appears either my puter was wonkey or the hamsters were wonkey and at that time of the deep dark night, the SDMB hamsters get wonkey. I was not calling your manhood, skills or integrity into question nor in anyway acting in an aggressive manner, actually I was going out of my way to notify you in as nice a way as I possibly could that you might want to check your link and you did I suppose. _I crawl away in abject fear of causing you to think I was in anyway attacking you or impugning on your abilities or character… I have learned my lesson about the results of good intentions and a helpful attitude on the SDMB… It won’t happen again…_ ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/35 "2006-02-19T16:00:41Z")
Uh. Fortunately I’m not rising to the bait. I checked the link when I Previewed. I checked it again after reading your post. I just checked it again. It is a functioning, properly coded link. Nice try, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/36 "2006-02-19T16:29:57Z")
_Bait_ ??? If you do not see the self depreciating humor in my post. I most respectively suggest you rethink your screen name… ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/37 "2006-02-19T21:23:00Z")
Hmm. My apologies then, it didn’t read as self-depricating humor. Sorry I put that spin on it. And, did the darned link **work** at any point for you? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/38 "2006-02-19T21:42:41Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Who gets to police the Air Marshalls? I 'unno. Coast Guard? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/39 "2006-02-20T06:46:14Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Hmm. My apologies then, it didn’t read as self-depricating humor. Sorry I put that spin on it. > > And, did the darned link **work** at any point for you? Yeah, worked just fine the next day about noon ( but we can’t edit posts so… ) when I came back. Why I figured it was the hamsters. I have seen links and whole posts get wonkey or lost of a hours, just thought if you did not check it, you might get called on a bad link. I have messed up links before myself or had the hamsters do it for me. No harm, no foul, I do have a hard time getting my thoughts across with the written word. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400/40 "2006-02-20T16:28:55Z")
I’m sure the question is rhetorical. Quite obviously, as with any law enforcement agency, their own internal controls and the jurisdictional prosecutor’s office do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-polices-the-police-or-what-the-air-marshalls-do/344400.md?page=1)