# Who preceeded M. Monroe as a gay icon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764 "2009-09-12T00:30:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Harrogate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Harrogate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Harrogate)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/1 "2009-09-12T00:30:14Z")
Hope this isn’t offensive. Who preceeded Marilyn Monroe as a Gay icon? I thought of this when I heard that Alan Turing commited suicide by eating a poisoned apple (ala Snow White). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/2 "2009-09-12T01:08:38Z")
Since when is Marilyn a gay icon? ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/3 "2009-09-12T02:06:17Z")
Yeah, I’m not so sure that Marilyn Monroe was a gay icon — [Judy Garland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Garland_as_gay_icon), her contemporary, has more of that reputation (and may well have preceded her in that role.) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/4 "2009-09-12T03:45:14Z")
Of course Marylin was (and is) a gay icon . . . but not so much until after her death. Before Marilyn, there was Judy Garland, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, and several less famous ones. There was also Dorothy Parker, but probably less widespread. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/5 "2009-09-13T18:47:22Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Of course Marylin was (and is) a gay icon . . . but not so much until after her death. > > Before Marilyn, there was Judy Garland, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, and several less famous ones. There was also Dorothy Parker, but probably less widespread. I know lots of female impersonators liked to represent her, but I never got the impression there was much emotional resonance with her and gays re her being any kind of a specifically gay “icon”. She was a cultural icon of sorts, but gay specific not so much. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/6 "2009-09-13T18:52:41Z")
Re mass culture “icons” in general how far back does the modern notion of a popular icon really go? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/7 "2009-09-13T18:59:02Z")
That’s not a gay icon, [THIS](http://media.dandwiki.com/w/images/a/a4/Slaanesh_icon.jpg) is a gay icon! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/8 "2009-09-13T19:07:21Z")
[Wiki has a good history](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_icon) ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/9 "2009-09-14T01:37:24Z")
I was going to suggest Mae West. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/10 "2009-09-14T03:17:22Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I know lots of female impersonators liked to represent her, but I never got the impression there was much emotional resonance with her and gays re her being any kind of a specifically gay “icon”. She was a cultural icon of sorts, but gay specific not so much. She never really became a gay icon until after her death. And of course Andy Warhol helped a lot. As far as impersonators are concerned, she’s one of the easiest to identify, but one of the most difficult to truly capture. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/11 "2009-09-14T03:24:29Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [Wiki has a good history](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_icon) There’s a whole lot in that article that I disagree with. I wish they treated the icons of gay men separately from those of lesbians. They’re not the same thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-preceeded-m-monroe-as-a-gay-icon/509764/12 "2009-09-14T13:36:48Z")
Marilyn Monroe is a gay icon, but not a uniquely gay icon. That is, if I saw a Liza Minelli poster on a man’s wall, I’d assume he was gay. If I saw that a man had a complete DVD collection of Bette Davis and Joan Crawford movies, I’d assume he was gay. But a Marilyn poster or a Marilyn DVD collection? Could be gay, or could be just a horny straight guy with a specific celebrity fetish.