# Who puts the M in Manchester? Battle of the Bands.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [June 7, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646 "2011-06-07T19:05:56Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/1 "2011-06-07T19:05:56Z")
Inspired by my other thread, who gets your vote for the greatest of the Manchester Bands?
Tony Wilson narrowed it down to the 5 great Manchester bands:
1. Joy Division/New Order 2. The Smiths 3. Happy Mondays 4. Stone Roses 5. Oasis.
Tony must have been mad at Mark E Smith over something, because obviously The Fall should be added to that list as well.
I would imagine that Joy Division, The Fall, and The Smiths will get most of the votes, though all six groups were groundbreaking in one way or another, so I’m interested to see how it goes.
I did also include “other” as a choice, as there could be some die hard Throbbing Gristle fans lurking around. Who knows, maybe someone here really loves Simply Red. anyways, if you pick other, please indicate your choice in the thread.
So it goes…
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### Author:  [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/2 "2011-06-07T19:29:18Z")
Van der Graaf Generator. 😛
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### Author:  [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/3 "2011-06-07T20:13:17Z")
Found it very difficult to pick amongst the top three, but opted for The Fall because I’ve got over 500 of their tracks on my PC, according to winamp.
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### Author:  [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/4 "2011-06-07T21:40:01Z")
The Smiths are the greatest - would be in the conversation for greatest band of the last 30 years, full stop.
The Fall are also immense, of course, it’s just really hard to compare them to anyone else. They’re literally in a league of their own, which is good and bad I suppose (they have a new album out right?)
Personally prefer the Roses and Mondays’ sound to New Order, but would say that New Order were the more important band, and have a far larger body of quality work.
Oasis are a novelty act so can’t be compared to the others - a pub band.
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### Author:  [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/5 "2011-06-07T21:45:35Z")
Magazine.
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/6 "2011-06-07T21:58:59Z")
I find it ironic that The Smiths are tied with Joy Division (I just tied them up BTW :D), because without Ian Curtis, there ain’t gonna be any Morrissey/Smiths.
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### Author:  [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/7 "2011-06-07T22:02:52Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#):
>
> The Smiths are the greatest - would be in the conversation for greatest band of the last 30 years, full stop.
> The Fall are also immense, of course, it’s just really hard to compare them to anyone else. They’re literally in a league of their own, which is good and bad I suppose (they have a new album out right?)
>
> Personally prefer the Roses and Mondays’ sound to New Order, but would say that New Order were the more important band, and have a far larger body of quality work.
>
> Oasis are a novelty act so can’t be compared to the others - a pub band.
I would agree that Oasis probably comes in last out of these bands, but I think you’re being a little hard on them. The Gallaghers did put out 2 excellent albums that helped define Britpop, and thus, the dominant sound in British popular music in the mid-nineties. I would compare their impact to that of Nirvana. Of course, it’s currently in style to call Nirvana one of the most overrated bands ever, so who knows.
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### Author:  [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/8 "2011-06-07T22:07:17Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> I find it ironic that The Smiths are tied with Joy Division (I just tied them up BTW :D), because without Ian Curtis, there ain’t gonna be any Morrissey/Smiths.
The Smiths were not terribly influenced by Joy Division(a band morrissey calls boring).
If you mean that Joy Division’s sound and image paved the way for The Smiths as far as creating a receptive public, then I agree.
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### Author:  [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/9 "2011-06-07T22:10:10Z")
Huh…never knew both The Smiths and New Order were from there. Something in the water there that they produced the #1 and #2 worst bands in history?
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### Author:  [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/10 "2011-06-07T22:12:07Z")
I voted Stone Roses. I’m going to be honest, Joy Division does very little for me outside of a few songs, The Smiths had some good songs but the Stone Roses really nailed everything: image, melody, instrumentation, lyrics and were arguably directly responsible for half the bands coming out of Britain in the 1990s (Ocean Colour Scene, Bluetones, Oasis, etc. all formed after attending a Stone Roses gig). If we’re talking albums, the Stone Roses is the best album produced by any of those bands IMO.
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### Author:  [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/11 "2011-06-07T22:18:45Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#):
>
> I voted Stone Roses. I’m going to be honest, Joy Division does very little for me outside of a few songs, The Smiths had some good songs but the Stone Roses really nailed everything: image, melody, instrumentation, lyrics and were arguably directly responsible for half the bands coming out of Britain in the 1990s (Ocean Colour Scene, Bluetones, Oasis, etc. all formed after attending a Stone Roses gig). If we’re talking albums, the Stone Roses is the best album produced by any of those bands IMO.
Stone Roses is a fantastic album, but it’s no _The Queen is Dead_. 😉
Glad to see the Roses getting some love.
It’s funny you say that about Joy Division. I was the same way for a long time and then all of a sudden something in my head just clicked and now they’re the one band that I would consider putting above the Smiths(though I didn’t)
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### Author:  [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/12 "2011-06-07T22:25:48Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#):
>
> I voted Stone Roses. I’m going to be honest, Joy Division does very little for me outside of a few songs, The Smiths had some good songs but the Stone Roses really nailed everything: image, melody, instrumentation, lyrics and were \*\*arguably directly responsible for half the bands coming out of Britain in the 1990s (Ocean Colour Scene, Bluetones, Oasis, etc. all formed after attending a Stone Roses gig). \*\* If we’re talking albums, the Stone Roses is the best album produced by any of those bands IMO.
Not fair to put all the blame onto the Roses for that collection of shite IMO.
Agree the Roses are mightily good, very influential but it’s just two albums, one great, one decent - v thin body of work. A lot more sustained brilliance from The Smiths, New Order etc [Obviously not fair to compare anyone’s output with The Fall, who are on another planet].
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### Author:  [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/13 "2011-06-07T22:30:31Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#):
>
> I voted Stone Roses. I’m going to be honest, Joy Division does very little for me outside of a few songs, The Smiths had some good songs but the Stone Roses really nailed everything: image, melody, instrumentation, lyrics and were arguably directly responsible for half the bands coming out of Britain in the 1990s (Ocean Colour Scene, Bluetones, Oasis, etc. all formed after attending a Stone Roses gig). If we’re talking albums, the Stone Roses is the best album produced by any of those bands IMO.
And their second album was the worst, which balances things out.
I voted Smiths, but it was a tough call between them and JD/NO.
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### Author:  [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/14 "2011-06-07T22:36:11Z")
My personal favorite is “New Fast Automatic Daffodils”.
I certainly don’t think that they’re the best of the bunch, though. Just my favorite.
> **[New Fast Automatic Daffodils](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Fast_Automatic_Daffodils)**
>
> New Fast Automatic Daffodils (later shortened to New FADS) were an alternative rock group from Manchester, England, active between 1988 and 1995.
> Formed in 1988 by Dolan Hewison (guitar), Justin Crawford (bass), Perry Saunders (drums) in Hulme whilst students at Manchester Polytechnic, the line-up was complete when, Andy Spearpoint who was at the drama school, joined on vocals. The name comes from a poem by Adrian Henri that mixed an advertisement for the Dutch DAF car with the Wordsworth poe...
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### Author:  [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/15 "2011-06-07T22:38:57Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#):
>
> My personal favorite is “New Fast Automatic Daffodils”.
>
> I certainly don’t think that they’re the best of the bunch, though. Just my favorite.
>
> [New Fast Automatic Daffodils - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Fast_Automatic_Daffodils)
“Life is an Accident” is a great track
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### Author:  [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/16 "2011-06-07T22:57:40Z")
I would have to go with The Fall for sheer originality of material. Although to be honest, I know they’re not as cool as those other bands, but I’ve probably got more enjoyment out of James over the years than any of those.
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/17 "2011-06-08T01:02:37Z")
> [@5-HT](#):
>
> The Smiths were not terribly influenced by Joy Division(a band morrissey calls boring).
>
> If you mean that Joy Division’s sound and image paved the way for The Smiths as far as creating a receptive public, then I agree.
Methinks Morrisey doth protest too much-in any event while Curtis brooded in his music (sometimes _too_ effectively), Morrisey often just comes across as a whiner half the time.
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### Author:  [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/18 "2011-06-08T01:48:20Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> Methinks Morrisey doth protest too much-in any event while Curtis brooded in his music (sometimes _too_ effectively), Morrisey often just comes across as a whiner half the time.
True enough, but if you compare Johnny Marr’s guitar and Andy Rourke’s bass to Sumner and Hook, the style is completely different. Stephen Morris may well have had some influence on Mike Joyce though.
Lyrically though, I just don’t see it. There are some similar themes, of course, but Ian Curtis was more of a poet that happened to be in a band. Supposedly he had a box containing poems/lyrics that he had written and would just grab a sheet and make the words fit onto the song. Morrissey is much more of a conventional songwriter. Ian was not really into all that clever wordplay and sarcasm like Morrissey.
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### Author:  [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/19 "2011-06-08T02:18:29Z")
[These guys](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It75wQ0JypA&feature=related) [might have something](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_deK_A_TrQ&feature=related) [to say](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvlcFwcY44k) [about your poll.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7S8-Iewi0)
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### Author:  [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-puts-the-m-in-manchester-battle-of-the-bands/584646/20 "2011-06-08T03:05:28Z")
> [@installLSC](#):
>
> [These guys](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It75wQ0JypA&feature=related) [might have something](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_deK_A_TrQ&feature=related) [to say](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvlcFwcY44k) [about your poll.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7S8-Iewi0)
Apologies, I was referring to rock bands rather than pop, though I apparently forgot to note that in the OP. Feel free to toss them under “other” if you must.
Interestingly, though the Hollies have been around since 1962, The Fall have released 56 more albums than them.
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