# Who, really, are the "Iraqi Insurgents"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862 "2004-11-20T20:47:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/41 "2004-11-25T13:04:41Z")
> [@](#): > > 56 parties have been refused so far So? I’m sure there are legitimate reasons as to the cause of this. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/42 "2004-11-25T13:15:54Z")
\*\*[URL=http://www.theunionleader.com/articles\_showa.html?article=47482Electrician, imam ran insurgent city \*\* > [@](#): > > Before the assault on Fallujah, U.S. officials described the city as a den of foreign terrorists, but its top commanders were an electrician and a mosque preacher - both natives of the community and now on the run from American forces. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/43 "2004-11-25T13:17:42Z")
:smack: [Electrician, imam ran insurgent city](http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=47482) ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/44 "2004-11-25T13:23:31Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > :smack: > [Electrician, imam ran insurgent city](http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=47482) Al Zuwquari was an engineer? OBL worked in construction at some time, whats your point? Yeah, so they ‘lead’ Fallujah, and they did such an excellent job too :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/45 "2004-11-25T13:44:30Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > So? I’m sure there are legitimate reasons as to the cause of this. Well, pony them up then. All I’m saying is I can’t find the criteria used and I’m not about to take it on trust that they were excluded for a good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/46 "2004-11-25T14:13:14Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > whats your point? They’re local freedom fighters **Ryan** , not the big scary foreign terrorist boogermen we’d been told they were. That goes directly to the OP **‘Who, really, are the “Iraqi Insurgents”?’**. Is that clear enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/47 "2004-11-25T14:22:24Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Haha. Strange how I got the list right here 🙂 > > [People's Daily Online -- 156 parties to participate in Iraq elections](http://english.people.com.cn/200411/24/eng20041124_164996.html) Strange how their ain’t a list of candidates or parties on that link either. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/48 "2004-11-25T14:24:37Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Strange how their ain’t a list of candidates or parties on that link either. ‘there’ damn you Tagos, ‘there’. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/49 "2004-11-26T14:12:07Z")
but wait a minute. I have the list right here! [http://fayrouz.blogspot.com/2004\_11\_01\_fayrouz\_archive.html#110047640554689021](http://fayrouz.blogspot.com/2004_11_01_fayrouz_archive.html#110047640554689021) Assembly of Independent Democrats led by Adnan Pachachi. The Assembly For Iraq led by Dr. Raad Mawlood. Islamic Da’wa Party In Iraq led by Dr. Ibrahim Al-Ja’fari. Islamic Virtue Party led by Dr. Nadim Al-Jabiri. Centrist Assembly Party led by Mahmood Mohammed. Islamic Work Organization led by Ibrahim Al-Muttairi. Al-Mehrab martyr For Islamic Information Organization led by Ammar Al-Hakim. Iraqi Islamic Party led by Dr. Muhsin Abd Al-Hameed. Badr Organization led by Hadi Al-Amiri. Turkmen Elee Party led by Ryath Jamal. Iraqi Turkmen National Party led by Jamal Mohammed. Democratic National Party led by Naseer Al-Jadirji. Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution led Abd Al-Aziz Al-Hakim. Movement of Independent Turkmen led by Kenaan Shakir. Democratic Assembly of Iraqi Tribes led by Ghalib Sa’ood. Iraq Assembly of National Unity led by Dr. Nehro Mohammed. Iraqi Assembly For Democracy led by Raheem Al-Sa’edi. Iraqi Communist Party led by Hameed Majeed. Islamic Union of Iraqi Turkmen led by Abbas Al-Byati. Assembly of Justice and Equality led by Suhail Al-Jazae’ri. Islamic Union of Philean Iraqi Kurds led by Tha’r Al-Philee. Prince Ahmed Tah Ahmed Yaseen Mahmood. Assyrian National Party led by Samrood Beto. Islamic Movement of Iraqi Turkmen led by Dr. Sami 'Aryan. Iraqi Democrats Movement led by Dr. Qasim Abbas. Free Democratic Country Party led by Haithem Al-Hasani. Iraqi National Assembly led by Dr. Hussein Al-Jibouri. Islamic Da’wa Party - Iraq Organization led by Abd Al-Kareem Al-'Anzi. Movement of Hizbella (Party of Allah) in Iraq led by Hasan Al-Sari. Justice and Democratic Advancement Party led by Sami Falih. Loyal Iraqis Society led by Sa’ad Yahya. Islamic Philee Assembly in Iraq led by Miqdad Al-Baghdadi. Democratic Assembly of Iraq led by Farqad Al-Qazwini. Islamic Heralds Party led by Ali Al-Yasiri. Unity Party led by Mobdir Salman. Turkmen Loyalty Movement led by Feryad Omar. Kurdistani Democratic Solution Party led by Fa’aq Mohammed. Amer Ali Hussein Owaid Al-Murshidi. Turkmen National Movement led by Husam Al-Deen Ali. Iraqi Turkmen Justice Party led by Anwar Hameed. Ali Mua’yad Hussein Al-Qaisi. Democratic Qasimi Assembly led by Qasim Al-Janabi. Liberal Phileen Kurds Organization led by Shamil Darweesh. Iraqi Republican Assembly led by Sa’ad Al-Janabi. Democratic Islamic Stream led by Hussien Al-Adili. Council of Iraqi Lords led by Nazar Al-Khaizaran. Democratic National Coalition led by Dr. Malik Al-Hasan. National Baith-Nahrain Union led by Korkis Khoshaba. Iraq Party of Allah (Hizbella) led by Abd Al-Kareem Al-Mohamedani. Liberal Republicans Party led by Hussein Al-Mosawi. Democratic Establishment Party led by Asaad Al-Ibadi. Liberal Civilian Officers Movement led by Najeeb Al-Salihi. Islamic Da’wa Movement led by Adil Abd Al-Raheem. Assembly of The Future Iraq led by Dr. Ibrahim Al-Aloom. Iraqi Elites Assembly led by Mohammed Ghaza’l. Assembly of Independents in Wasit led by Abd Al-Kareem Jawad. Arabic Socialist Movement led by Abd Al-Ilah Al-Nasrawi. Liberation and Reconciliation Front led by Mish’an Al-Jibouri. Assyrian Democratic Movement led by Yonadim Khana. Hasan Jawad Amana. Ali Mahsoon Husseini Bander Al-Fitlawi. Mush’al Awad Al-Sari. Muhsin Habib Shamkhi Al-Ka’bi. Hamza Mohammed Jasim Ja’far Al-Aqabi. Banner of Independents led by Munir Ahmed. loyalty For Najaf led by Adnan Abd Khithaer. National Front For Iraq’s Unity led by Hasan Al-Lahibi. Ali Abd Hamza Al-Timimi. Abd Al-Sattar Al-Qat’ Al-Abodi. Independent Babylon Society led by Salim Kathim. Ali Muslim Jar Allah Ali Al-Bithani. Movement of Independent Syriac Assembly led by Yasho’ Hajd. The Prophet Institution led by Khathim Majeed. Ibrahim Khalil Sa’eed Al-Isawi. Engineer Sheik Khalifa Al-Haj Saddam Shabib Al-Bithani. Mohammed Rashad Al-Fadl. Ali Talal Ali. Democratic National Coalition led by Sameer Shakir Mahmood. Assembly of Grandsons of Twenties Revolution led by Abd Al-Hussein Al-Yasiri. Constitutional Royalty led Al-Shareef Ali Abd Al-Hussein. Ibrahim Zayon Mohammed Al-Mosawi. Iraqi National Accord led by Ayad Allawi. League of Iraqi Turkmen Lords and Tribes led by Abd Al-Hammed Al-Bayati. First Democratic National Party led by Hadeem Al-Haj Hamood. Iraqi National Congress led by Ahmed Al-Chalabi. Iraqi National Liberation Movement. Abd Al-Amir Obis Al-Sabah. Assembly of Missan Independent Sons led Mohammed Hantoosh. Engineer Mosa Muhsin Idris Al-Yasiri. Husseini Thought Forum. Imam Ali Society. Iraqi National Rescue Party. Islamic Reconciliation Movement. National Brotherhood Movement. Iraqi Independent Assembly For Liberation and Establishment. Assembly of Iraqi Independent Statement. Chaldean National Congress. Kurdistani National Union. Islamic Independent National Assembly. Christian Democratic Party. The Nation Party. Kurdistan Tikishani Zahma Party. National League of Leaders and Sheiks of Iraqi Tribes. Al-Ridha Center For Culture For Guidance. Malik Abd Al-Hussein Ghafoori. Muthana Fadhil Mohammed Ibrahim. Hikmet Dawood Hakeem. Ibrahim Shafik Khalil Ibrahim Al-Basri. Islamic Conference of Iraqi Tribes. Independent National Elites and Cadres. Conference of United Democratic Iraq. Independent Islamic League. Assembly of Al-Furat Al-Awsat. Free Caller Assembly. Sheik Sa’doon Ghulam Ali Abd Al-Karim Al-Lami. Kurdistani National Stream. Humanitarian Society For Retirees. Iraqi National Movement. Kurdistani Conservatives Party. Independent Iraqi Front. Falah Hasan Abd Al-Amir AlArithi. Ahmed Hasan Mahmood. Kurdistani Islamic Movement - Iraq. Iraqis led by Ghazi Al-Yawar. National Assembly of Centrist Stream. Democratic Iraqi Nation Party. Najat Fadhil Abbas. Engineer Baqir Al-Baqir. United National Coalition. Independents List. Assyrian National Assembly. Independent League For Democracy Care. Independent Advanced National Front. Irsal Ghalaf Hassoon Al-Karawi. Public Union For Iraqi Youth. Independent Brothers Iraqi National Brotherhood Party. Nizar Talib Abd Al-Kareem. Monathil Jasim Hasan Al-Allaf. Movement of Democratic Society. Front of Sha’ban Iraq Uprising in 1991. Al-Sayed Kathim Jasim Ali Al-Fathili Al-Husseini. Ghalib Muhsin Abd Hussein Al-Sabahi Movement of New Iraq. Mohammed Daham Nazal. Independent Nationalists. Elites In Diyala. National Assembly. Loyalty Assembly For Iraq. Democratic Joint Work Front. Democratic Iraqi People Party. Democratic National Advancement Party. Iraqi Pro-Democracy Party led by Blogger Mohammed Fadhil. Dr. Abd Jasim Al-Sa’dee. Sha’ban Uprising League. Kurds Independents List. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/50 "2004-11-26T14:14:27Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > They’re local freedom fighters **Ryan** , not the big scary foreign terrorist boogermen we’d been told they were. That goes directly to the OP **‘Who, really, are the “Iraqi Insurgents”?’**. Is that clear enough for you? Oh, wait a minute, when they kidnap Iraqi children, men and women, ransom them and murder them cold blooded, yeah, they sure are the freedom fighters 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/51 "2004-11-26T14:14:45Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/52 "2004-11-26T14:16:24Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Oh, wait a minute, when they kidnap Iraqi children, men and women, ransom them and murder them cold blooded, yeah, they sure are the freedom fighters 🙂 Could be. Terrorism is a tactic not a noun. It might make them evil scum freedom fighters. This isn’t either/or. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/53 "2004-11-26T14:26:19Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Could be. Terrorism is a tactic not a noun. It might make them evil scum freedom fighters. This isn’t either/or. They’re scumbags, and the majority of the Iraqis don’t want them to be there taking charge. I don’t see a problem in having this opinion. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/54 "2004-11-26T14:36:59Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Let’s frame the question properly: Let’s say Dubya became a dictator. Let’s say the ‘blue states’ didn’t like it, so he ordered chemical attacks on them and killed millions of New Yorkers. He puts down an uprising in the Bayou by draining the swamps and destroying the culture. Jeb Bush is installed as head of security, and he’s a homicidal maniac who rapes women, goes around shooting people in the head who speak out. Bush’s secret police are everywhere. You’re afraid to speak your mind about just about anything, because you never know if the person you are talking to is going to inform on you and you will be beaten or murdered. Or maybe you’ll be a ‘walking lesson’ - a person who’s entire family is dragged into the street and shot in front of you so you can be a reminder to others of the price of disloyalty. > > Now imagine that after 20 years of this, Tony Blair says, “Enough!”, and British soldiers invade the U.S. to restore democracy and get rid of the tyrant. > > Are you still going to take up arms against the brits? Let’s frame the question based on **reality** , shall we. Suppose the British Secret Service install a US president decades ago. Next they sell him weapons of mass destruction to avoid Canada invading, and the war costs over a million lives. For 20 years, this maniac is allowed to violently dominate his people. Only when British oil supplies are threatened by an invasion of Mexico do the Brits do anything - and even then they don’t try to overthrow the President. Finally there is a terrorist incident in Britain. Using faked or unreliable evidence about non-existent weapons of mass destruction, the Brits invade the US, falsely claiming some connection with terrorism. Realising they have broken international law and found no weapons, the embarrassed Brits decide to claim they were on a humanitarian mission. Tens of thousands of US civilians are killed during the invasion. The Brits set up their own President of the US, and take over the lucrative oil contracts. Are you going to take up arms against the Brits? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/55 "2004-11-26T14:39:33Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > They’re scumbags, and the majority of the Iraqis don’t want them to be there taking charge. I don’t see a problem in having this opinion. I think the ones engaging in such tactics are scumbags too - but that ain’t all of them. As has already been demonstrated - there are many different resistance groups with different ideologies and goals. They have a perfect right to resist a foreign invader but like you I deplore the kidnappings and other attacks on civilians. The Iraqi’s don’t want us there either. [iraq poll in usatoday](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm) > [@](#): > > Only a third of the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their country is doing more good than harm, and a solid majority support an immediate military pullout even though they fear that could put them in greater danger, according to a new USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll. > [@](#): > > But while they acknowledge benefits from dumping Saddam a year ago, Iraqis no longer see the presence of the American-led military as a plus. Asked whether they view the U.S.-led coalition as “liberators” or “occupiers,” 71% of all respondents say “occupiers.” > > That figure reaches 81% if the separatist, pro-U.S. Kurdish minority in northern Iraq is not included. The negative characterization is just as high among the Shiite Muslims who were oppressed for decades by Saddam as it is among the Sunni Muslims who embraced him. > > The growing negative attitude toward the Americans is also reflected in two related survey questions: 53% say they would feel less secure without the coalition in Iraq, but 57% say the foreign troops should leave anyway. Those answers were given before the current showdowns in Fallujah and Najaf between U.S. troops and guerrilla fighters. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/56 "2004-11-26T14:50:43Z")
To add > [@](#): > > Bearing the brunt of Iraqis’ ill feeling: U.S. troops. The most visible symbol of the occupation, they are viewed by many Iraqis as uncaring, dangerous and lacking in respect for the country’s people, religion and traditions. > [@](#): > > The insurgents, by contrast, seem to be gaining broad acceptance, if not outright support. If the Kurds, who make up about 13% of the poll, are taken out of the equation, more than half of Iraqis say killing U.S. troops can be justified in at least some cases. But attacks against Iraqi police officers, who are U.S.-trained, are strongly condemned by the Iraqi people. It’s a Spring poll so maybe opinions have changed for the better. I doubt it but who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/57 "2004-11-26T14:54:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Only a third of the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their country is doing more good than harm, and a solid majority support an immediate military pullout even though they fear that could put them in greater danger, according to a new USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll Neither would I, but then again, who says the public always knows whats best for them? And don’t give me ‘well its their country they want us out so be it’ rubbish, I know that, but the thing is if we don’t leave when theres a proper functioning society and government, with fully trained armed forces which can deal with the threats of terrorists, then that is a big of a crime than invading in the first place. > [@](#): > > Are you going to take up arms against the Brits? But then the Brits bring about a new government, aimed at bringin about a represenative government, and then help to train the armed forces to defend this new freedom 😃 I’d sign up 🙂 Look, there are two ways out of this, either the insurgent way where they destroy the country completely and then make it miserable for everyone for the next few dozen generations, or, they cooperate with the coalition so that it would be easier to be at the helm and take full responsibilty themselves. I think I know which one a normal Iraqi would take. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/58 "2004-11-26T14:58:53Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But then the Brits bring about a new government, aimed at bringin about a represenative government, and then help to train the armed forces to defend this new freedom 😃 > > I’d sign up 🙂 To Godwinise again, In the countries occupied by the Germans police and local volunteer units and national socialist members were ‘legitimate’ targets for the resistance. As are US trained and controlled Iraqi police and security troops. In the view of the Iraqi resistance they are just traitors and collaborateurs. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/59 "2004-11-26T15:01:45Z")
It is their country and if they want us out we should leave, your opinions on what is best for a people and a country you know little about notwithstanding. [Religious Leaders Ahead in Iraq Poll](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52674-2004Oct21?language=printer) > [@](#): > > Leaders of Iraq’s religious parties have emerged as the country’s most popular politicians and would win the largest share of votes if an election were held today, while the U.S.-backed government of interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi is losing serious ground, according to a U.S.-financed poll by the International Republican Institute. > > More than 45 percent of Iraqis also believe that their country is heading in the wrong direction, and 41 percent say it is moving in the right direction > [@](#): > > “The picture it paints is that, after all the blood and treasure we’ve spent and despite the [U.S.-led] occupation’s democracy efforts, we’re in a position now that the moderates would not win if an election were held today,” said a U.S. official who requested anonymity because the poll has not been released. > [@](#): > > But in another blow, one out of three Iraqis blames the U.S.-led multinational force for Iraq’s security problems, slightly more than the 32 percent who blame foreign terrorists, the poll shows. Only 8 percent blame members of the former government. Besides - as usual you are imposing a false dichotomy. It’s not Occupation by USA or Chaos. We could rip up all the snout-in-the-trough laws and contracts, hand the whole thing over to the UN to sort out without using our veto and bankroll whatever plan they come up with. Take up the Saudi plan for a Muslim force that’s still on the table even. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862/60 "2004-11-26T15:02:46Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > To Godwinise again, In the countries occupied by the Germans police and local volunteer units and national socialist members were ‘legitimate’ targets for the resistance. As are US trained and controlled Iraqi police and security troops. > > In the view of the Iraqi resistance they are just traitors and collaborateurs. Hmm a government which is on course to bring about a democratic government, or insurgents which will pretty much destory the fabric of Iraq if they win. Stark choices and easy answers 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-are-the-iraqi-insurgents/275862.md?page=4)