# Who really wrote the bible? -Debate- **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476 "2012-11-29T16:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/41 "2012-11-29T22:54:53Z")
I think I had some Semite on a slice of toast the last time I was in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/42 "2012-11-29T23:03:57Z")
OK, I’m in. > [@](#): > > * * * > > I’m looking for: > > Name Happy Lendervedder. Actually, that’s a _nom de plume_. I don’t go by that in real life. > [@](#): > > Approximate Age I’m 37. > [@](#): > > Approximate Year of writing It’s the end of 2012. I don’t know why you’d ask this, though; every post is time-stamped. > [@](#): > > ## Guess as to why Whether you believe they saw it as the truth By “they” do you mean the Dopers reading this thread? And by “it” do you mean the info I just gave? If so, I’m pretty sure they’ll believe everything I said to be the truth. Now what’s this got to do with the Bible? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/43 "2012-11-29T23:58:45Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Why would the Bible (specifically the NT) mention WHY or even THAT the Jews rejected him? wasn’t the cross enough of a rejection for you? Um; the cross was the Romans killing him, not other Jews. Crucifixion was a Roman punishment. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/44 "2012-11-30T00:40:11Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > [Dex and Eutychus](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1989/who-wrote-the-bible-part-5). I can accept that **Dex** wrote the Old Testament, but **Euty** is younger so I think he wrote the New Testament. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/45 "2012-11-30T00:47:36Z")
> [@James52637](#): > > Actually, I’m going to put my big boy pants on, something you must not own. > > [http://theamazingdeception.com/new\_page\_4.htm](http://theamazingdeception.com/new_page_4.htm) That is the one of the sillier attempts to “describe” the New Testament. From the opening line of the link: > [@](#): > > At this point, I have pushed my allegations to the limit of credibility; that is, that Jesus was an Essene and an insurrectionist. At this point, Mr. Duke has pushed is allegations way past the limit of credibility well into the realm of uninformed speculation. Making Jesus an Essene is the hallmark of New Age silliness that ignores everything we know about the Essenes. I am not going to do a detailed rebuttal of Duke’s odd claims; they are hardly worth considering. I place them among the myriad speculations that have been floating around since the end of the 19th century that took a particular twist after the 1960s when various people began misreading information published about the Qumran Scrolls. It is no big deal, aside from having such a loose connection to reality as to be well fit for the fiction section of a bookstore. (One would get as much “historical” information from reading the typical Dan Brown potboiler.) I will point out that Duke totally mischaracterizes the nature of Apostolic Succession as a result of inventing a history for “Tradition” that has no basis in reality. This is not to make any claim that we know the actual author of any of the books of the New Testament (other than recognizing that Paul/Saul of Tarsus was the most likely author of seven of the works attributed to him). However, any claim that cites Mr. Duke is simply risible. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/46 "2012-11-30T01:34:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who wrote the Bible? It was_ **The Jews!** _ Hey, we got a good advance. Though I wish the royalty checks would show up already. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/47 "2012-11-30T01:40:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You can’t start a thread like this, drop a line like _that_, and not expect us to immediately demand a cite. agreed…if James does that again, please issue him a citation ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/48 "2012-11-30T01:58:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Um; the cross was the Romans killing him, not other Jews. Crucifixion was a Roman punishment. You’re of course correct - my point was (and I didn’t state it at all) that the (majority if any of) Jews at the time did not recognize him as the Messiah, which led to him being put to the cross - had they recognized him as the messiah, I think the story would have played out _very_ differently. (conjecture of course) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/49 "2012-11-30T02:11:55Z")
> [@simster](#): > > You’re of course correct - my point was (and I didn’t state it at all) that the (majority if any of) Jews at the time did not recognize him as the Messiah, which led to him being put to the cross - had they recognized him as the messiah, I think the story would have played out _very_ differently. I’ll grant “differently,” but I am not sure that it would have changed the overall history of the Jewish people that much: see Bar Kokhba. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/50 "2012-11-30T02:41:44Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > That is the one of the sillier attempts to “describe” the New Testament. > > This is not to make any claim that we know the actual author of any of the books of the New Testament (other than recognizing that Paul/Saul of Tarsus was the most likely author of seven of the works attributed to him). However, any claim that cites Mr. Duke is simply risible. I liked the part where he cited the fact that Peter was also identified as Simon or Cephas as evidence that the New Testament was made up. (_“Names and events are shuffled together so haphazardly that it is impossible to preserve their identity. For example: Peter (one of the twelve Apostles) is referred to as Peter, Simon, and Cephas”_) Duke is apparently unaware that the man’s given name was clearly Simon (or Shimon in the original Aramaic). Simon’s nickname was “Rocky” - which in Aramaic is Cephas and which translates into Latin as Petrus (Peter). This is laughably poor scholarship. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/51 "2012-11-30T03:42:59Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > That is the one of the sillier attempts to “describe” the New Testament. I could only skim parts of it. Silly ideas are one thing, bad writing is another. From my skimming: > [@](#): > > The truth? No one can say with certainty who wrote any of the New Testament books! Of the twenty-seven books in the New Testament, the authorship of only twelve is known with any degree of assurance, and we can be reasonably confident that Paul wrote seven of those. Even this cite says we don’t know. So, we need a new cite as to who wrote the Net Testament. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/52 "2012-11-30T03:44:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This is laughably poor scholarship. [Lionel Hutz] That’s a kind of scholarship! [/Lionel Hutz] ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/53 "2012-11-30T04:05:53Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > So, we need a new cite as to who wrote the Net Testament. I don’t know who wrote the Net Testament. But [apparently](https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=how+much+does+newt+gingrich+weigh&oq=how+much+does+newt+gingrich+weigh&gs_l=hp.3..0.1378.8961.0.9598.37.29.0.0.0.2.678.7152.2-2j3j3j7.15.0.les%3Bcqn%2Crate_low%3D0-035%2Crate_high%3D0-035%2Cmin_length%3D2%2Ccconf%3D1-2%2Csecond_pass%3Dfalse%2Cnum_suggestions%3D1%2Cignore_bad_origquery%3Dtrue%2Conetoken%3Dfalse..0.0...1c.1.d0-xfMATtMo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=994d01e560db146b&bpcl=39314241&biw=1600&bih=744) a surprising number of people have written the Newt Estimate. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/54 "2012-11-30T05:01:27Z")
Tibor wrote the Old Testiment [Homer Simpson: Always blame the guy who doesn’t speak English.] ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/55 "2012-11-30T05:29:09Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I don’t know who wrote the Net Testament. But [apparently](https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=how+much+does+newt+gingrich+weigh&oq=how+much+does+newt+gingrich+weigh&gs_l=hp.3..0.1378.8961.0.9598.37.29.0.0.0.2.678.7152.2-2j3j3j7.15.0.les%3Bcqn%2Crate_low%3D0-035%2Crate_high%3D0-035%2Cmin_length%3D2%2Ccconf%3D1-2%2Csecond_pass%3Dfalse%2Cnum_suggestions%3D1%2Cignore_bad_origquery%3Dtrue%2Conetoken%3Dfalse..0.0...1c.1.d0-xfMATtMo&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=994d01e560db146b&bpcl=39314241&biw=1600&bih=744) a surprising number of people have written the Newt Estimate. > [@](#): > > About 995,000 results Not bad for a Newt. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/56 "2012-11-30T06:24:31Z")
> [@James52637](#): > > ## I’ve seen multiple theories and arguments as to who really wrote the bible. This thread is more for the people who already realize it’s not true, because I don’t really think “Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc., etc., etc.” is a very truthful belief. I’m asking more about the Old Testament, because I have seen some proof to whom actually wrote the New Testament. I’m not voicing my opinions quite yet, just trying to get a feel for what this community believes. > > I’m looking for: > > ## Name Approximate Age Approximate Year of writing Guess as to why Whether you believe they saw it as the truth > > I’d like it to be kept kind of serious, but bible jokes are always welcome. xD you can google this, if you wanted. the first of the OT was written by moses (the Pentateuch) and preserved in the ark of the covenant. David and Solomon added some, then Hezekiah, etc. most of these have extraordinarily consistent extremely early iterations (century-to-centuries before christ existed). they have extant documents, the dead sea scrolls, the book of Isaiah from around 1000 ad—which jibe, meaning meticulous care was taken in preservation. the NT, eeeeh. gets cloudy. there’s no dead sea scroll for the NT, and it wasn’t redacted until something like 397 ad. so do that math. there’s also some language barriers. no original extant documents exist, only early copies. some differ wildly (well, but then so do the gospels). some things have been lost in copy (maybe they wrote TINT instead of TENT or tenant). some things were lost in translation (hebrew-greek-english). some words straight don’t translate. some words don’t exist. a great example is “homosexual.” it wasn’t a concept, so there was no word. “guys who do guys” typically meant something like “pederast,” so “defiler of boys” mixed in with “effeminate” and all that was just kind of smoothed out to “homosexual” in common christian vernacular, _but is that what God said_? hrm. who wrote those books? [google](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible). so. short answer: God. long answer: tons of dudes. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/57 "2012-11-30T06:33:05Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > you can google this, if you wanted. > > the first of the OT was written by moses (the Pentateuch) and preserved in the ark of the covenant. > David and Solomon added some, then Hezekiah, etc. most of these have extraordinarily consistent extremely early iterations (century-to-centuries before christ existed). > > they have extant documents, the dead sea scrolls, the book of Isaiah from around 1000 ad—which jibe, meaning meticulous care was taken in preservation. > > the NT, eeeeh. gets cloudy. there’s no dead sea scroll for the NT, and it wasn’t redacted until something like 397 ad. so do that math. > > there’s also some language barriers. no original extant documents exist, only early copies. some differ wildly (well, but then so do the gospels). some things have been lost in copy (maybe they wrote TINT instead of TENT or tenant). some things were lost in translation (hebrew-greek-english). some words straight don’t translate. some words don’t exist. a great example is “homosexual.” it wasn’t a concept, so there was no word. “guys who do guys” typically meant something like “pederast,” so “defiler of boys” mixed in with “effeminate” and all that was just kind of smoothed out to “homosexual” in common christian vernacular, _but is that what God said_? hrm. > > who wrote those books? [google](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible). > > so. short answer: God. long answer: tons of dudes. Moses didn’t exist, bro. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/58 "2012-11-30T06:37:14Z")
Maybe it was someone else with the same name. ([Joking…](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeric_scholarship)) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/59 "2012-11-30T06:41:05Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Moses didn’t exist, bro. fiiiiiiine. then God did it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/60 "2012-11-30T06:48:43Z")
i feel bad for james. ya’ll know he’s just a kid, right? he seems misguided but genuinely attempting to engage in discussion on this junk. it’s impossible not to want to clobber it, which is fair. but i posted my obligatory, half-ass serious answer–so now _ALL HAIL EMPEROR CLOBBERSAURUS_! > [@Lobohan](#): > > Emperor Clobbersaurus didn’t exist, bro. [perfunctory cite something something about Homer](http://board.mezco.net:16080/image.php?u=1056&dateline=1121459119). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476.md?page=4)