# Who really wrote the bible? -Debate- **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476 "2012-11-29T16:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/61 "2012-11-30T07:00:00Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > you can google this, if you wanted. > > the first of the OT was written by moses (the Pentateuch) and preserved in the ark of the covenant. > David and Solomon added some, then Hezekiah, etc. most of these have extraordinarily consistent extremely early iterations (century-to-centuries before christ existed). > > they have extant documents, the dead sea scrolls, the book of Isaiah from around 1000 ad—which jibe, meaning meticulous care was taken in preservation. The current edition of _I, Claudius_ is a perfect match to the first edition. This demonstrates that Claudius actually wrote it. Go back to your Bible and tell me where the Torah is mentioned in Judges or Kings And also tell me where it says the Torah was inside the Ark. (The Ark, of course, is mentioned.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/62 "2012-11-30T07:28:41Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The current edition of _I, Claudius_ is a perfect match to the first edition. This demonstrates that Claudius actually wrote it. > > Go back to your Bible and tell me where the Torah is mentioned in Judges or Kings And also tell me where it says the Torah was inside the Ark. (The Ark, of course, is mentioned.) yeah, i know–the doper’s favorite moment is when he gets to jump all over someone’s beliefs. only i never said i believe it. i just tried to answer the question. if you hate it or [disagree](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible), go change the [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant)page. i’m simply trying to [give james what he asked for](http://www.gotquestions.org/original-Bible.html)–not what i think or believe. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/63 "2012-11-30T07:46:35Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/51Fn2r-8hHI/hqdefault.jpg "False Prophet") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Fn2r-8hHI) ^everyone here. WE KNOW. it can still be discussed without assholery. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/64 "2012-11-30T07:55:56Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Not bad for a Newt. He got better. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/65 "2012-11-30T08:57:54Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > yeah, i know–the doper’s favorite moment is when he gets to jump all over someone’s beliefs. > > only i never said i believe it. i just tried to answer the question. if you hate it or [disagree](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible), go change the [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant)page. i’m simply trying to [give james what he asked for](http://www.gotquestions.org/original-Bible.html)–not what i think or believe. If you don’t believe something, you shouldn’t state it as fact, bro. Also, it is customary to put an upper case letter at the beginning of sentences and when calling yourself, “I.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/66 "2012-11-30T12:14:33Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > Emperor Clobbersaurus didn’t exist, bro. [Do not change the text within quote boxes of other posters.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7697048#post7697048) [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/67 "2012-11-30T12:44:31Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > you can google this, if you wanted. > > the first of the OT was written by moses (the Pentateuch) and preserved in the ark of the covenant. > David and Solomon added some, then Hezekiah, etc. most of these have extraordinarily consistent extremely early iterations (century-to-centuries before christ existed). > > they have extant documents, the dead sea scrolls, the book of Isaiah from around 1000 ad—which jibe, meaning meticulous care was taken in preservation. > > the NT, eeeeh. gets cloudy. there’s no dead sea scroll for the NT, and it wasn’t redacted until something like 397 ad. so do that math. > > there’s also some language barriers. no original extant documents exist, only early copies. some differ wildly (well, but then so do the gospels). some things have been lost in copy (maybe they wrote TINT instead of TENT or tenant). some things were lost in translation (hebrew-greek-english). some words straight don’t translate. some words don’t exist. a great example is “homosexual.” it wasn’t a concept, so there was no word. “guys who do guys” typically meant something like “pederast,” so “defiler of boys” mixed in with “effeminate” and all that was just kind of smoothed out to “homosexual” in common christian vernacular, _but is that what God said_? hrm. > > who wrote those books? [google](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible). > > so. short answer: God. long answer: tons of dudes. You know, the word “traditionally” and “many believe that” can be added to statements to indicate that you are reporting, well, traditional thngs that many people believe. This helps to differentiate folklore from scholarship (although scholars \*can \*study folklore and learn many fascinating things about a people). And I don’t think the book of Isaiah was written during the High Middle Ages. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/68 "2012-11-30T15:17:23Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > the first of the OT was written by moses (the Pentateuch) and preserved in the ark of the covenant. > David and Solomon added some, then Hezekiah, etc… According to legend, sure. According to recorded history, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/69 "2012-11-30T15:20:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If you don’t believe something, you shouldn’t state it as fact, bro. > > Also, it is customary to put an upper case letter at the beginning of sentences and when calling yourself, “I.” stop calling _bro_, guy. i provided _cites_. argue them. it’s not like i just made all that up or anything. literally two of the three cites are from fucking wikipedia. if you don’t think moses existed–go change it. if you disagree with the rest–GO CHANGE IT. otherwise stop acting dickish because i quoted information from cites to answer someone’s question. goddamn. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/70 "2012-11-30T15:22:18Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > According to legend, sure. According to recorded history, not so much. hi! james was the one asking. it would be nice of you to provide cites to the historical information regarding the authorship of the bible. it would appear the information i parroted from wikipedia is so grossly erroneous the Dope can’t quite deal with it. plz help james by providing your cites and be kind enough to fix the authorship page off wikipedia to avoid anyone ever providing the information i did ever again. thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/71 "2012-11-30T15:23:33Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > WE KNOW. it can still be discussed without assholery. Please follow your own advice and keep your posts Great Debates-appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/72 "2012-11-30T15:58:23Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > the first of the OT was written by moses (the Pentateuch) and preserved in the ark of the covenant. > [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > it would be nice of you to provide cites to the historical information regarding the authorship of the bible. > > it would appear the information i parroted from wikipedia is so grossly erroneous the Dope can’t quite deal with it. Cecil’s Staff Report did. > [@](#): > > It has long been recognized that there were a few problems with the traditional view of Moses as author. The text reports the death of Moses–how could Moses have written of his own death? It also describes Moses as “the most humble man who ever lived”–how could Moses write that about himself? But these are minor issues. Some say Moses’ successor Joshua wrote the few lines that describe the death of Moses; others say that Moses himself was commanded to write that text before it happened. None of this represents a serious challenge to Mosaic authorship. > > As time went on, however, scholars became increasingly skeptical of the idea of Moses as single author… Did you actually read [Who Wrote the Bible?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1985/who-wrote-the-bible-part-1) ---
**Author:** ![James52637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@James52637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James52637)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/73 "2012-11-30T16:23:23Z")
> [@simster](#): > > The Jewish people predate Christianity - if the Jews of the time rejected Jesus (of the same time) as the Messiah - how is it that you (of current time) know ‘better’ then they do? > > You have accepted the books/writings/teachings of a person they rejected. > > Why would the Bible (specifically the NT) mention WHY or even THAT the Jews rejected him? wasn’t the cross enough of a rejection for you? Let alone the ohter mentions in the NT of the persecution of Christ’s followers? > > Why would the OT even make mention of the NT that was not relevant to its followers? I know “better” than they do because I have strong logical evidence that the entire belief of a biblical god is false. ---
**Author:** ![James52637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@James52637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James52637)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/74 "2012-11-30T16:26:28Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > i feel bad for james. ya’ll know he’s just a kid, right? > > he seems misguided but genuinely attempting to engage in discussion on this junk. it’s impossible not to want to clobber it, which is fair. but i posted my obligatory, half-ass serious answer–so now _ALL HAIL EMPEROR CLOBBERSAURUS_! > > [perfunctory cite something something about Homer](http://board.mezco.net:16080/image.php?u=1056&dateline=1121459119). I don’t deserve your defense in the matter, but I appreciate it. Though, I’m engaging in conversation with adults, and expect to be treated the same way. They can insult me as much as they wish while I am the one picked out by moderation staff. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/75 "2012-11-30T16:29:17Z")
> [@James52637](#): > > “All we can say is that many scholars look to Jamnia and 90 AD as the point at which the Hebrew Bible was fixed. Others point to dates anywhere from 200 to 400 years earlier. We can only assert, with a fair degree of confidence, that the Hebrew Bible was certainly fixed by 90 AD and probably before that.” > > They just admitted they’re not sure about that. This pretty well defines serious science/scholarship. In some cases you can reach definite conclusions, but in most cases there is room for doubt, or known limitations to the measurement technique and tools. So: “There is strong evidence that X is true.” means that X is probably true, and anyone who wants to convince others that it is not needs to supply better, or at least nearly equal evidence of that. The closest a legitimate scientist or scholar should ever come to making a definitive statement is “The evidence for X is overwhelming.” or similar. Dex and Euty were not merrily covering their butts, they were being truthful. Opinions differ because scholars apply different weighting to various pieces of often conflicting evidence. Making a definitive statement will require the outright rejection of some evidence as false. There are many people that are OK with that, but they are not scientists or scholars, and the result is belief, not fact. ---
**Author:** ![James52637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@James52637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James52637)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/76 "2012-11-30T16:29:45Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Sure it does. What if instead you had asked: > > "Who really wrote the New York Times? I’m talking about the Times in general and not specifically the Sunday edition though I have seen cites as to who it was. Specifically I’m looking for: > > Name > Approximate Age > Approximate Year of writing > Guess as to why > Whether you believe they saw it as the truth > " > > That would totally imply that you’re searching for a singular author of a work that’s composed of the works of many different writers of many different genres over many different epochs. > > You just wouldn’t phrase it the way you did. Would you like to give me evidence of some form of supernatural power that allows you to read my thoughts or intentions? I suppose I should’ve wrote “Names” instead of “Name” but I meant it on a book by book basis. ---
**Author:** ![James52637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@James52637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James52637)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/77 "2012-11-30T16:31:44Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > This pretty well defines serious science/scholarship. In some cases you can reach definite conclusions, but in most cases there is room for doubt, or known limitations to the measurement technique and tools. > > So: “There is strong evidence that X is true.” means that X is probably true, and anyone who wants to convince others that it is not needs to supply better, or at least nearly equal evidence of that. The closest a legitimate scientist or scholar should ever come to making a definitive statement is “The evidence for X is overwhelming.” or similar. > > Dex and Euty were not merrily covering their butts, they were being truthful. Opinions differ because scholars apply different weighting to various pieces of often conflicting evidence. Making a definitive statement will require the outright rejection of some evidence as false. There are many people that are OK with that, but they are not scientists or scholars, and the result is belief, not fact. You all seem to be misreading what I had to say about that. I do NOT disagree with what Dex and Euty were saying, at all. I simply wanted to hear some other theorys or other evidence to something different. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/78 "2012-11-30T16:34:43Z")
> [@James52637](#): > > I know “better” than they do because I have strong logical evidence that the entire belief of a biblical god is false. But you seem to know much less about their religious beliefs. Jews believe the Messiah is going to be and do certain things (detailed in the Old Testament) and Jesus didn’t do those things. Your view about gods (which is also mine) does not mean you’re better informed about that. I think maybe you need to explain what you actually think here. ---
**Author:** ![James52637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@James52637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James52637)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/79 "2012-11-30T16:37:47Z")
I have very little knowledge as to what this thread is actually about, I suppose. I am only knowledgeable about what is actually in the bible. I’ve read it thoroughly and have tried to understand as much of it as I am capable of. My real intention on this thread was to learn… interactively, I suppose. To engage in conversation with people who know what they’re talking about rather than just google a bunch of research papers that have conflicting views. (Or be attacked for wording things poorly) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476/80 "2012-11-30T16:46:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > He got better. But does he float? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-really-wrote-the-bible-debate/642476.md?page=5)