# Who’s got more control over the media, liberals or conservatives? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349 "2004-12-17T15:23:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/1 "2004-12-17T15:23:42Z")
I guess this is a debate. On one side you have people saying that Tom Brokaw and Dan Rather are liberals and they are the news anchors for two major networks. Then you have Fox News which I do not think anyone can say is not conservative. So what do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/2 "2004-12-17T15:41:55Z")
Rather and Browkaw may be liberals in their personal beliefs, but that’s not really the point. The point about Fox News isn’t that it has a conservative point of view. The point is that while taking on the guise of a news service, it actively works to promote the Republican party, its candidates, its agenda, and its talking points. There is no Democratic or liberal equivalent to this. There are plenty of opinion sources on the left, but none that claims to be a news organization while doing the party’s work. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/3 "2004-12-17T15:49:23Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > I guess this is a debate. On one side you have people saying that Tom Brokaw and Dan Rather are liberals and they are the news anchors for two major networks. Then you have Fox News which I do not think anyone can say is not conservative. So what do you think? I’ll say it. Fox News isn’t conservative. Fox tries to be fair and balanced and show both points of view to it’s viewers. Since the other networks tend to be liberal Fox only seems to be right wing to lots of people because it stands out with it’s fairly unique middle of the road perspective. I’d argue that neither the left nor right has any “control” over the media. However, since most people in the news business tend to be more liberal than the public, the news they present tends to be biased to the left. (This is especially true for the networks, print and other “old” media.) This isn’t a result of any conspiracy or control the left has. It’s simply human nature. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/4 "2004-12-17T16:06:30Z")
Broadcast media is I believe much more conservative than liberal. The 3 major networks are run by legitimate journalists and don’t put any biased spin on their stories. FOX on the other hand, doesn’t practice legitimate journalism and exists to cheerlead for the Republicans. CNN is probably the most liberal of the news networks but not as far left as FOX is far right. MSNBC is a tad right of center. The print media has bias on both sides, depending on the source. New York Times=liberal, Detroit News=conservative. Time=conservative, Newsweek=liberal with US News somewhere in the middle. It’s in talk radio that conservatives flex their muscles. There is no left equivalent of Limbaugh and his ilk. On the whole, if you aggregate all the media I would say it has a definite right wing bias. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/5 "2004-12-17T16:18:36Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I’ll say it. Fox News isn’t conservative. > > Fox tries to be fair and balanced and show both points of view to it’s viewers. This is how Fox construes “fair and balanced”: If George Bush said the Earth was flat, Fox would frame it like this: **"Shape of Earth: Views Differ"** ---
**Author:** ![fontor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/34f0e0/32.png) [@fontor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fontor)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/6 "2004-12-17T16:26:27Z")
> [@](#): > > However, since most people in the news business tend to be more liberal than the public, the news they present tends to be biased to the left. I remember reading in my old Poli Sci days (no cite, sorry) that people who are well-educated (not necessarily smarter) tend to score more liberal on tests of political tendency. Journalists, being educated folk, would likely have a leftish bias. Unfortunately, what’s happening now is that the press is so afraid of being tarred with the liberal brush that they go out of their way to swing rightward. Righties have been shouting that “liberal bias” slogan for a long time. So the media isn’t as liberal as it used to be, but more disappointingly, they aren’t asking the tough questions of the powers that be. My perception, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/7 "2004-12-17T16:32:49Z")
> [@](#): > > it [Fox News] actively works to promote the Republican party, its candidates, its agenda, and its talking points. Do you have proof of this, or is this “your take”? Have you seen the Colmes side of “Hannity and Colmes”? Are you aware that Fox employs an equal number of Liberals and Conservatives? Most TV news outlets (ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN) and most major newpapers (NY Times, LA Times, Boston Globe) are traditionally Liberal, or headed by liberal hosts and editors. Many radio program hosts are Conservative (Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Savage, Ingraham). Folks like O’Rielly who consider themselves traditionalists come across as conservative to the liberals and liberal to the conservatives… ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/8 "2004-12-17T16:34:11Z")
Two cents from the Far Right here. Back in the Seventies, almost all conservatives would have argued vehemently that “the media” were overwhelmingly dominated by liberals, and that it showed in their coverage of the news. And I’d have agreed completely. Mind you, at that time “the media” was a pretty narrow entity. When people spoke of “the media,” they pretty much meant the three major TV networks, PBS, a handful of major newspapers (NY Times, Boston GLobe, L.A. Times, Washington Post, etc.) and the two major weekly news magazines (Time and Newsweek). Today, those outlets represent just a tiny fraction of “the media.” A huge amount has changed since the Seventies. I think that, for the most part, the outlets I described are STILL pretty liberal (though, on the whole, not as liberal as they used to be)… but there are now loads of media outlets that didn’t exist then: talk radio is now a powerful force, not the joke it used to be. Fox News didn’t exist, and it leans more blatantly to the right than ABC, CBS or NBC lean to the left. So, it’s no longer valid for conservatives to gripe so incessantly about how “the media” are against them. So, when I say the “big 3” networks aren’t as liberal as they used to be, am I saying they’ve drifted rightward- no! Rather, they’ve become more apolitical. The news media seem to have taken a cue from “Entertainment Tonight,” and are often more concerned about pop culture than with the major issues of the day. Need I add that, even for conservatives, this does NOT represent an improvement? Up to now, however, I have spoken solely of the news media. The news media, I would say, are no longer notably liberal. The entertainment media are a different story. Hollywood is controlled by the far left, and that shows in the products they put out. But there’s not much the Right can or should do about that except: 1. Shun the crap Hollywood puts out, and 2. Stop complaining about Hollywood and start making movies that reflect conservative values. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/9 "2004-12-17T17:47:57Z")
> [@Wrath](#): > > Have you seen the Colmes side of “Hannity and Colmes”? Yeah, Fox employs a number of “liberals” whose role for the most part is to play the ineffectual strawman. > [@](#): > > Are you aware that Fox employs an equal number of Liberals and Conservatives? If Fox were an honest news source, it would have no idea how many liberals or conservatives it employs. It would simply enforce honest and rigorous reporting. For example, when Brit Hume worked for ABC, I had no idea what his political views were, and that’s the way it should be. On Fox, Hume clearly plays the part of shill for the administration. > [@](#): > > Most TV news outlets (ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN) and most major newpapers (NY Times, LA Times, Boston Globe) are traditionally Liberal, or headed by liberal hosts and editors. Many radio program hosts are Conservative (Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Savage, Ingraham). Folks like O’Rielly who consider themselves traditionalists come across as conservative to the liberals and liberal to the conservatives… The fact that news anchors and news reporters might be liberal in their own view is irrelevant so long as the objective truth is reported. True news anchors and news reporters are not the equivalent of opinionists like talk show hosts. It’s apples and oranges. The conservative campaign of abuse, on the other hand, has pushed the traditional news media in general to the position that there is no such thing as objective truth: there are merely two opinions. This plays right into the hands of the right, which then manipulates the public discussion. To understand what’s really going on here, you need to take a look at – - The Republican Noise Machine : Right-Wing Media and How It Corrupts Democracy by David Brock - What Liberal Media? The Truth About Bias and the News by Eric Alterman - Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth by Joe Conason ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/10 "2004-12-17T18:14:07Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The conservative campaign of abuse, on the other hand, has pushed the traditional news media in general to the position that there is no such thing as objective truth: there are merely two opinions. Bingo. But I wouldn’t waste time seriously arguing with someone who would seriously point to Alan Colmes as an example of a liberal. _Choose your battles carefully._ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/11 "2004-12-17T18:40:26Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > If Fox were an honest news source, it would have no idea how many liberals or conservatives it employs. It would simply enforce honest and rigorous reporting. You mean like 60 Minutes did with the Bush “memos”? 😉 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/12 "2004-12-17T19:38:43Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Fox tries to be fair and balanced and show both points of view to it’s viewers. Since the other networks tend to be liberal Fox only seems to be right wing to lots of people because it stands out with it’s fairly unique middle of the road perspective. Is this a whoosh? Let’s pull some recent examples of “fair and balanced”: > [@](#): > > [**12/17/2004:**](http://mediamatters.org/items/200412170004) > On _FOX News Live_ December 16, Liberty Counsel president and general counsel Mathew D. Staver claimed that a former Florida mayor was hostile to Christianity because he was “apparently Jewish.” One random unsubstantiated accusation of anti-Christian “apparent Judiasm” from the head of a right-wing lobbying group – check. > [@](#): > > [**12/17/2004:**](http://mediamatters.org/items/200412170001) > Retiring Senator Zell Miller (D-GA), who supported President Bush’s reelection, spoke at the Republican National Convention, and authored A National Party No More: The Conscience of a Conservative Democrat (Stroud & Hall, 2003), will join FOX News Channel as a contributor. One token “Democrat” to serve for “balance” – check. > [@](#): > > [**12/16/2004:**](http://mediamatters.org/items/200412160015) > Attempting to defend Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld against criticism that the Pentagon hasn’t provided enough armor for military vehicles in Iraq, FOX News and ABC Radio Networks host Sean Hannity overstated the number of “up-armored” Humvees currently deployed in Iraq. In a December 15 radio interview with Rumsfeld on The Sean Hannity Show, Hannity falsely asserted that the military now has 15,000 up-armored Humvees, and Rumsfeld said Hannity’s flawed assessment was “roughly correct.” Hannity repeated the erroneous claim that evening on Hannity & Colmes. In fact, the U.S. military presently has only 6,000 up-armored Humvees in Iraq; there are also 10,000 Humvees with add-on armor kits, which offer less protection than up-armored vehicles. Blatant lying to cover ass for Republican leaders – check. > [@](#): > > [**12/15/2004:**](http://mediamatters.org/items/200412150007) > On the December 14 edition of _FOX News’ Special Report with Brit Hume,_ the “FOX All-Star” panelists agreed that Social Security’s annual cost-of-living adjustment (COLA) is ripe for a cut, since the increase is indexed to wages rather than to actual cost of living, and wages generally increase faster than the cost of living. But this is incorrect. Social Security COLAs are tied to inflation – that is, to increases in the actual cost of living. Slanted “unbiased” panel carrying water for George W. Bush’s schemes – check. Of course, this is [just the beginning.](http://mediamatters.org/archives/search.html?topic=FOX%20News%20Channel) But that’s really no surprise, since Fox News consistently [fails the “fair and balanced” test.](http://www.fair.org/extra/0407/special-report.html) And [Alan Colmes is a joke.](http://www.fair.org/extra/0311/hannity-colmes.html) ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/13 "2004-12-17T19:40:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You mean like 60 Minutes did with the Bush “memos”? 😉 > > Regards, > Shodan [Tu Quoque](http://www.fallacyfiles.org/tuquoque.html) is a very common fallacy in which one attempts to defend oneself or another from criticism by turning the critique back against the accuser. This is a classic Red Herring since whether the accuser is guilty of the same, or a similar, wrong is irrelevant to the truth of the original charge. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/14 "2004-12-17T20:22:18Z")
Bill Moyers had this to say as he was finishing his last piece before retirement: > [@](#): > > “I was just in the editing room, working on the last piece,” Bill Moyers says. “I thought: `I’ve done this so many times, and each one is as difficult as the last one.’ Maybe finally I’ve broken the habit.” > > It hasn’t been so much a habit for Moyers as a truth-telling mission during his three decades as a TV journalist. But come next week, he will sign off from “Now,” the weekly PBS newsmagazine he began in 2002, as, at age 70, he retires from television. > > “I’m going out telling the story that I think is the biggest story of our time: how the right-wing media has become a partisan propaganda arm of the Republican National Committee,” says Moyers. “ **We have an ideological press that’s interested in the election of Republicans, and a mainstream press that’s interested in the bottom line. Therefore, we don’t have a vigilant, independent press whose interest is the American people.** ” Original Source: [http://asia.news.yahoo.com/041210/ap/d86sgqug0.html](http://asia.news.yahoo.com/041210/ap/d86sgqug0.html) ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/15 "2004-12-17T20:44:29Z")
I can’t believe how much liberals [deny reality.](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/paulgreenberg/pg20041022.shtml) CBS legend Walter Cronkite, who had strong editorial influence for decades, choosing which stories to cover and editorializing those news stories, recently admitted to being extremely liberal in his views. He simply would not give press to news that he did not agree with, unless it was to point out its wrongs as he saw them. That’s how liberals being involved in the media spin and slant stories. They advance the liberal cause by continuing to hire the like-minded, as in Dan Rather. From Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby: > [@](#): > > “Everybody knows that . . . there’s a heavy liberal persuasion among correspondents,” Walter Cronkite has said. Inevitably, that liberal persuasion colors reporters’ and editors’ work. How could it not? When everyone in the newsroom shares a liberal worldview, conservative opinions and ideas are easily dismissed. The result is that on a host of topics, from capital punishment to gun control to tax cuts, Big Media almost always speaks with one voice. It’s hard to believe Al Gore can’t hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/16 "2004-12-17T20:46:28Z")
Sorry… Here’s that [link to the article](http://www.bigeye.com/jj121502.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/17 "2004-12-17T20:53:56Z")
I just thought it might be interesting to toss in that some “liberal” reporters are basically planning on going to jail to protect Bush administration figures who even the reporters agree are probably guilty of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Kaspar\_Hauser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Kaspar\_Hauser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaspar_Hauser)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/18 "2004-12-17T20:57:27Z")
Didn’t Walter Cronkite retire about twenty years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/19 "2004-12-17T20:59:20Z")
I’m sorry, but the Jacoby article provides virtually nothing of substance. And interpreting a quote from WC far beyond what is actually says is not a way to convince anyone. Anyone that would cite Bernie G’s well-debunk screed “Bias” as if it were a scholarly source without any problems has a chip on their shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349/20 "2004-12-17T21:09:10Z")
Well then, how about [this source:](http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics/welcome.asp) > [@](#): > > \*\*Liberal bias in the news media is a reality. \*\*It is not the result of a vast left-wing conspiracy; journalists do not meet secretly to plot how to slant their news reports. But everyday pack journalism often creates an unconscious “groupthink” mentality that taints news coverage and allows only one side of a debate to receive a fair hearing. When that happens, the truth suffers. That is why it is so important news media reports be politically balanced, not biased. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-s-got-more-control-over-the-media-liberals-or-conservatives/280349.md?page=2)