# Who said, "An eye for an eye"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 30, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243 "2004-12-30T14:33:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/1 "2004-12-30T14:33:43Z")
I was just arguing with a Catholic friend over who said, “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.” I said it was Jesus, and she claimed Moses. We looked it up, and the one place it appears in the Bible is in Matthew 5:38, and it is in fact Jesus speaking. However, He is only quoting. (“Ye have heard it said …”) Jesus actually favored a policy of turning the other cheek, which also comes from Matthew 5. Can the quote actually be attributed to Moses, as my friend claims? ;j (I rarely get a chance to use that.) While we’re on the subject, what does it mean? It’s often used today by those favoring strict punishment for criminals, but I always think of it as counseling restraint. That is, you don’t cut off someone’s hands for stealing a bit of bread. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/2 "2004-12-30T14:39:44Z")
> [@Greg Charles](#): > > I was just arguing with a Catholic friend over who said, “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.” I said it was Jesus, and she claimed Moses. We looked it up, and the one place it appears in the Bible is in Matthew 5:38, and it is in fact Jesus speaking. However, He is only quoting. (“Ye have heard it said …”) Jesus actually favored a policy of turning the other cheek, which also comes from Matthew 5. Can the quote actually be attributed to Moses, as my friend claims? ;j (I rarely get a chance to use that.) > > While we’re on the subject, what does it mean? It’s often used today by those favoring strict punishment for criminals, but I always think of it as counseling restraint. That is, you don’t cut off someone’s hands for stealing a bit of bread. Exodus 21: 22. If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24. **Eye for eye, tooth for tooth,** hand for hand, foot for foot, 25. Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. So the answer is “Attributed to Moses who attributed it to God” And you have the right take on it, tho the former aspect is not ruled out either. Nor do I think Jesus was in complete disagreement with it, but he was reinterpreting it against personal vengeance. He was not ruling it out as a criminal justice policy. Expect soon to see this become a GD. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/3 "2004-12-30T14:42:02Z")
It is generally acredited to Hammurabi’s Code [here](http://www.phillipmartin.info/hammurabi/hammurabi_codeindex.htm) and I would agree with you that at the time, it was a code of restraint. However, in our times it would probably be considered strict. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/4 "2004-12-30T14:43:14Z")
I’m not sure which gospel it is but Jesus says An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth was the law of the land, but I give unto you this day a new law: Love the Lord God above all others and love thy neighbor as thyself. Any person who believes in eye for an eye is not a Christian. It is completly against the teaching of Jesus to believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/5 "2004-12-30T15:01:04Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > It is generally acredited to Hammurabi’s Code [here](http://www.phillipmartin.info/hammurabi/hammurabi_codeindex.htm) and I would agree with you that at the time, it was a code of restraint. However, in our times it would probably be considered strict. Any hint as to which of the 282 laws includes it? ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/6 "2004-12-30T15:09:22Z")
> [@Ignatz](#): > > Any hint as to which of the 282 laws includes it? Here we go: > [@](#): > > 1. If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out. > > 2. If he break another man’s bone, his bone shall be broken. > > 3. If he put out the eye of a freed man, or break the bone of a freed man, he shall pay one gold mina. > > 4. If he put out the eye of a man’s slave, or break the bone of a man’s slave, he shall pay one-half of its value. > > 5. If a man knock out the teeth of his equal, his teeth shall be knocked out. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/7 "2004-12-30T15:10:17Z")
> [@Ignatz](#): > > Any hint as to which of the 282 laws includes it? 1. If a son strike his father, his hands shall be hewn off. 2. If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out. 3. If he break another man’s bone, his bone shall be broken. 4. If he put out the eye of a freed man, or break the bone of a freed man, he shall pay one gold mina. 5. If he put out the eye of a man’s slave, or break the bone of a man’s slave, he shall pay one-half of its value. 6. If a man knock out the teeth of his equal, his teeth shall be knocked out. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/8 "2004-12-30T15:25:03Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Exodus 21: > 24. **Eye for eye, tooth for tooth,** hand for hand, foot for foot, > 25. Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. Figures. I searched on “eye for an eye”, but in the ascetic Old Testament, they made do without articles. Thanks for the help! ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/9 "2004-12-30T17:20:49Z")
[This site](http://www.jafi.org.il/education/torani/NEHAMA/emor.html) has a look at the subject from a scholarly rabbi POV. The general consensus seems to be that the passage wasn’t litterally suggesting poking out eyes or hacking off limbs. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/10 "2004-12-30T17:22:00Z")
It should be noted that traditional Judaism has always held “eye for an eye” et al to mean monetary renumeration, not actually injuring the injurer’s body. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/11 "2004-12-31T00:30:43Z")
Motorhead’s “No Voices In The Sky” includes the lyric: > [@](#): > > Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, you all know what I mean So forget Moses, forget Jesus … it was Lemmy! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/12 "2004-12-31T03:05:47Z")
> [@Greg Charles](#): > > While we’re on the subject, what does it mean? It’s often used today by those favoring strict punishment for criminals, but I always think of it as counseling restraint. Yes – proportionality. If Halim hurts Schamag, you extract a proportionate retribution, rather than have Shamag’s relatives go into Halim’s tents and kill every man, rustle every woman, and rape every camel. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/13 "2004-12-31T03:43:50Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Nor do I think Jesus was in complete disagreement with it, but he was reinterpreting it against personal vengeance. He was not ruling it out as a > criminal justice policy. And in doing so, he was being consistent with the Mosaic Law. The law in question pertained to governmental authority, rather than personal vendettas. There was no conflict between what Jesus taught and what Moses said. ---
**Author:** ![iggy\_popov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@iggy\_popov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iggy_popov)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/14 "2004-12-31T07:53:24Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > So forget Moses, forget Jesus … it was Lemmy! Yeah, I remember hearing somewhere that Lemmy is God. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/15 "2004-12-31T08:09:09Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I’m not sure which gospel it is but Jesus says > An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth was the law of the land, but I give unto you this day a new law: Love the Lord God above all others and love thy neighbor as thyself. > > Any person who believes in eye for an eye is not a Christian. It is completly against the teaching of Jesus to believe that. It’s not in any gospel. That is two seperate quotes of Jesus jammed together. What Jesus said RE “eye for eye” is this- Matthew 5 38. Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39. But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. I take that as literally as I take his counsel a few verses earlier to pluck out my eye to avoid lust. Jesus amended & reinterpreted OT Law. He did not end it. Orthodox C’tian teaching is that the same God Who gave Torah is incarnate as Jesus (as Eternal God Father-Son). Slightly less orthodox C’tian teaching is that the same God Who gave Torah is the Creating Father of the Created Son. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Serpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@Silver\_Serpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Serpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/16 "2004-12-31T12:27:36Z")
I’m pretty much going to restate something other folks have said, but I still feel the need to say it for some reason. Eye for and eye doesn’t mean revenge, like some folks think. It’s more “let the punishment fit the crime.” Apparently, back in the day, folks would overpunish, and that’s what Jesus was preaching against. No more decapitation for stealing bread (well, you get what I mean). Am I understanding this correctly? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/17 "2004-12-31T13:49:36Z")
The Moderator Pontificates: Identifying a source of a quote is usually legitimate question for Cafe Society, although not always. Discussion about the political and religious and historic uses of the quote belong in Great Debates forum. I’m going to leave it here for the time being, with a reminder that this has been discussed several times in Great Debates. (I’m pressed for time, perhaps some other nice soul will locate some of the prior threads with links.) ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-an-eye-for-an-eye/282243/18 "2004-12-31T15:07:04Z")
> [@Silver Serpentine](#): > > I’m pretty much going to restate something other folks have said, but I still feel the need to say it for some reason. > > Eye for and eye doesn’t mean revenge, like some folks think. It’s more “let the punishment fit the crime.” Apparently, back in the day, folks would overpunish, and that’s what Jesus was preaching against. No more decapitation for stealing bread (well, you get what I mean). > > Am I understanding this correctly? Sorta. First, as it was pointed out, it was Hammurabi (who predate’s Moses by 2000 years), who is attributed with first putting this into law. But yes, you are understanding what Hammurabi was trying to accomplish. But second, as **FriarTed** points out, the quote from Jesus was > [@](#): > > 1. Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: > 2. But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. and it seems clear that Jesus was going farther and preaching forgiveness.