# Who said 'Gassings' were all fiction??? How do you explain two people sleeping 16 hours?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987 "2010-03-19T07:40:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/41 "2010-03-19T14:37:02Z")
How many nights did you stay in this place? Because if there were a carbon monoxide leak, the effects are cumulative, and you would have been feeling worse and worse over the time period you stayed there. You wouldn’t just “get over” CO poisoning after a good night’s rest. If you had enough CO to affect you in the manner you are suggesting, you would have almost certainly awoken from your 15 hour sleep and found yourself dead. Another vote here for jetlag. It happens. I travel quite a bit, and sometimes jet lag doesn’t bother me, and sometimes it really screws me up. It isn’t a conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/42 "2010-03-19T14:37:38Z")
Hey, **Welltravelled** , do you know a guy named [Jetblast](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=548518)? And I think that you are reasoning backwards when you say [QUOTE=Welltravelled] It still doesn’t say beyond reasonable doubt that there was no gas involved. [/QUOTE] You haven’t mentioned anything yet that even remotely suggests that anything other than tiredness was involved. Don’t start from the assumption that you were gassed and ask people to try to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Start with the mostly likely explanation (you were both tired). Is there anything other than how long you slept to suggest that something really unusual happened? Any actual evidence? Actually, no. So we’re done. You were tired, you slept, you woke up. Happens every day, it we’re lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Welltravelled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f475e1/32.png) [@Welltravelled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Welltravelled)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/43 "2010-03-19T14:43:47Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Here is what I am saying. > > Generally most crimes are crimes of opportunity. The average criminal is not really a smart person; he sees a random purse or an unlocked door, and strals. He breaks into a building where he knows there will be money. > > So there isn’t a random person gassing random people. I agree with you on this one. If it’s a job, it’s an inside job. > > You are saying, essentially, that the hotel constantly gasses their visitors and enters the rooms and steals things. I am asking you, why would they do it unless they knew you had something? It would be stupid beyond belief to gas everyone. Especially since they have keys to everyone’s rooms. Wouldn’t it just be easier to wait until you are gone, enter your room, and take what they wanted? > > Gassing leaves a trail. A trail of purchasing the gas, of installing special vents (!) and of administering it. And no, generally predator’s plans are NOT that well-thought out. > > Not to mention the same dosage doesn’t work on everyone, I know. You might have one person who doesn’t fall asleep at all, and you might have a dead body in the next room. Yes they are all valid points. However, predators are thought out. The ones who don’t get caught, don’t get caught for that exact reason, because they don’t make mistakes. You ask any detective, you catch someone because they make a MISTAKE! They leave evidence. They do something that means that it causes suspicion and raises alarm. Why would they steal from me? That just brings attention to them for such a crime its not worth. But there’s no ruling out that one has more sinister intentions and just like Joji Obara, who used gas on people without killing them many times over, and had it WELL PLANNED, because he was a predator, didn’t leave evidence. he was well orchestrated and evaded detection for many years, fact, real life. It happened. I think the motive was more sinister. And there’s no evidence to say whether something more sinister happened or not. just the by product that one was unconscious for an unexplained period of time. Finally, you do not gas people through vents, you’d be very stupid. you’d kill people and couldn’t control how much you were giving them. No one gassed me through a vent, definitely not!!! If anything, doctors use handkerchiefs. They apply the liquid form of the substance and allow it to form a vapour. This is how doctors make people anesthetised when they are out in the field where they don’t have the gas machines used in the theatres. E.g. in times of natural disasters. That’s what doctors actually do, fact, real life. And what criminals have done in the past, including Joji Obara! People don’t die all the time. Its a much more controlled way to deliver the substance and can be done by anyone who has been given expert advice. I don’t know the motive, but I can’t rule out physical violation. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/44 "2010-03-19T14:46:37Z")
> [@Welltravelled](#): > > I think the motive was more sinister. And there’s no evidence to say whether something more sinister happened or not. just the by product that one was unconscious for an unexplained period of time. What we are arguing is that you were not unconscious for an unexplained period of time. You were unconscious for very explainable reasons: jetlag and sheer exhaustion. And are you suggesting someone broke in a put handkerchiefs over your faces? If not the vents, how? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/45 "2010-03-19T14:47:01Z")
It’s a pretty preposterous way to rob someone. Jet lag explains everything easily, so Occam’s Razor makes that by far the most likely answer. Do you have any evidence it wasn’t just jet lag? Remember the fact that you slept so long is not evidence – jet lag would have caused it (and, yes, it could easily affect two people at once). So what evidence do you have to suspect gas? And I’m not referring to the length of time you slept. You “can’t rule out” physical violation, but is there any evidence to rule it in? Again, sleep is not evidence. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/46 "2010-03-19T14:48:07Z")
> [@Welltravelled](#): > > Look up joji obara. He gassed nearly 1000 people. Many lived. So, what is joji’s beef with you? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/47 "2010-03-19T14:49:16Z")
So basically, you’ve made up your mind, and there’s nothing anyone can say to change it, right? Why did you even ask the question? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/48 "2010-03-19T14:52:42Z")
Low levels of carbon monoxide do not knock people out quickly, as the OP described. And one would not wake up feeling normal after that type of exposure - one would feel out of sorts, headachy etc. And being rested would not immunize you against the effects of elevated CO2 levels. > [@Welltravelled](#): > > It still doesn’t say beyond reasonable doubt that there was no gas involved. You have this backwards. _You’re_ the one who needs to supply evidence to back your dubious contention. We are not obliged to (and cannot) disprove it, but we’ve provided logical and vastly more likely alternative explanations. I see **Crotalus** is also getting a feeling of Hendrixesque deja vu in this thread. Maybe the OP slept longer than intended because Vesperax was salted around his hotel room by MI5. Or he was partially drowned in wine without realizing it. Or, on the other hand, was Hendrix gassed? The possibilities are endless…:dubious: Historical note: One of America’s most notorious serial killers, Dr. H.H. Holmes, constructed a World’s Fair Hotel in Chicago in the 1890s that had rooms and chambers where he could surreptitiously introduce anesthetizing gas to immobilize and/or kill his victims. This could never happen today, because the hotel would be panned on Internet review sites. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/49 "2010-03-19T14:56:01Z")
Ok, so I googled Mr. Joji Obra because I did not recognize the name. Wiki says he was convicted in the rapes of several woman. With the women he slipped them a doctored drink. No gassing there, as far as I can tell. Upon a bit more googling, it says he claims that “gas had leaked into the room and he had a headache”. I find a few links tentatively linking him to using choloform gas and other things, but quite frankly I am bored of this now. Can you put up some links to tell us a little about Joji Obra? I mean, you brought him up, you should have plenty of links to connect him to random gassings, right? And as kayaker says, what does he have to do with you? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/50 "2010-03-19T15:00:53Z")
**Welltravelled** may I suggest you were gassed by your partner? So that they could violate you sexually? Isn’t it all clear now? ---
**Author:** ![Welltravelled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f475e1/32.png) [@Welltravelled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Welltravelled)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/51 "2010-03-19T15:01:07Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Hey, **Welltravelled** , do you know a guy named [Jetblast](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=548518)? > > And I think that you are reasoning backwards when you sayYou haven’t mentioned anything yet that even remotely suggests that anything other than tiredness was involved. Don’t start from the assumption that you were gassed and ask people to try to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Start with the mostly likely explanation (you were both tired). Is there anything other than how long you slept to suggest that something really unusual happened? Any actual evidence? Actually, no. So we’re done. You were tired, you slept, you woke up. Happens every day, it we’re lucky. How would we know what evidence that there is? I was knocked out fast. that’s the purpose of gassing people last time I checked so that they are unresponsive to stimuli. Pretty clear intent to me… These people don’t want to be caught, that’s the purpose of their covertness to avoid detection and to avoid raising an alarm. No different to joji obara. Clearly, why would someone put evidence there that something happened? But now, you’re saying that the lack of evidence means for an absolute definite, beyond reasonable doubt that nothing happened that could explain the period of unconsciousness for both people to the precise moment? Sounds like the perfect crime to me. No evidence, therefore never happened. Hence why these things continue to happen. My simple message and I have said it clearly above is for everyone to take care in hotels or wherever they may be. Make sure that you have the necessary security procedures to protect yourself from intruders, then you don’t have to wonder what could or did happen. Period. P.S. You still didn’t answer my point about two people sleeping, uninterrupted to the exact same minute??? No waking, no tossing, no turning. What actually does that? Just ask yourself for two minutes? Nearly each person who is tired, will sleep no doubt about it, but not nearly two people will react in the exact same way. Therefore, the question becomes, if, you don’t have ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/52 "2010-03-19T15:04:38Z")
> [@Welltravelled](#): > > P.S. You still didn’t answer my point about two people sleeping, uninterrupted to the exact same minute??? No waking, no tossing, no turning. What actually does that? Just ask yourself for two minutes? > > Nearly each person who is tired, will sleep no doubt about it, but not nearly two people will react in the exact same way. Therefore, the question becomes, if, you don’t have You have not even begun to prove that is what happened. How do you know you didn’t toss and turn? Perhaps a truck beeped its horn right outside and woke you both up? Waking up at the same time is not evidence that your sleep was anything other than usual. > [@](#): > > Therefore, the question becomes, if, you don’t have uh, oh. He’s been gassed again! ---
**Author:** ![wayward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a87d85/32.png) [@wayward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wayward)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/53 "2010-03-19T15:05:25Z")
People don’t react in the exact same way to being gassed, either. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/54 "2010-03-19T15:07:29Z")
Unless there was a camera on the two of you you have no way of knowing that you both slept through the night. I mean, why should I believe you? You were, in your own words, passed out! You don’t know what happened are are in fact the least reliable witness. You may think I am being insulting but I am not. Fact is, you were sleeping and have no idea what happened, and are ascribing it to gas when you have no reason whatsoever to believe it was. Thanks, ITF, you made me chortle. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/55 "2010-03-19T15:13:22Z")
Another possible explanation- alien abduction. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/56 "2010-03-19T15:13:32Z")
You weren’t probed were you? ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/57 "2010-03-19T15:13:34Z")
> [@Welltravelled](#): > > P.S. You still didn’t answer my point about two people sleeping, uninterrupted to the exact same minute??? No waking, no tossing, no turning. What actually does that? Just ask yourself for two minutes? It’s quite usual for my partner to wake up during the night, even to chat a bit with me, but to have no recollection at all of this the next day. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/58 "2010-03-19T15:17:00Z")
> [@Lazz](#): > > It’s quite usual for my partner to wake up during the night, even to chat a bit with me, but to have no recollection at all of this the next day. Yes, and they do say some interesting things, don’t they? I remember years ago when my SO was heavily into the Heroes of Might & Magic game, he woke up one night and said “Are you going to make me into a castle now?” And had no recollection of it. I love being the non-talker in my sleep. It’s so much more fun. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/59 "2010-03-19T15:18:05Z")
[QUOTE=Welltravelled] I was knocked out fast. [/QUOTE] You fell asleep fast. You have mentioned no evidence that you were knocked out. [QUOTE=Welltravelled] Pretty clear intent to me… These people… [/QUOTE] What people? You have mentioned no evidence of people. [QUOTE=Welltravelled] But now, you’re saying that the lack of evidence means for an absolute definite, beyond reasonable doubt that nothing happened that could explain the period of unconsciousness for both people to the precise moment? [/QUOTE] No, lack of evidence of anything other than completely normal happenings means that we should assume, absent evidence, that everything that happened was normal. My wife and I wake up at exactly the same time often. Two really mundane explanations for this: unremembered external stimuli like a clap of thunder or an ambulance going by, or one of us wakes the other inadvertently. [QUOTE=Welltravelled] Sounds like the perfect crime to me. [/QUOTE] Don’t crimes usually accomplish something for the perpetrator? [QUOTE=Welltravelled] P.S. You still didn’t answer my point about two people sleeping, uninterrupted to the exact same minute??? No waking, no tossing, no turning. What actually does that? Just ask yourself for two minutes? [/QUOTE] See above. [QUOTE=Welltravelled] Nearly each person who is tired, will sleep no doubt about it, but not nearly two people will react in the exact same way. Therefore, the question becomes, if, you don’t have [/QUOTE] Did you fall asleep suddenly while typing this? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987/60 "2010-03-19T15:24:25Z")
I slept almost that much on Saturday, and I didn’t get gassed _or_ travel to Europe. I just went two or three days without getting sufficient sleep. **Welltraveled** , you haven’t told us anything that would make an objective person think “this cannot be explained by tiredness and jet lag alone.” I’ll add this to what has already been posted: > [@Welltravelled](#): > > Background information: both of us were exposed to rapid movement across several time zones (possible jet lag); and over the previous 36 hours had rested only on the flight over, before settling down to bed. I’m not any kind of sleep expert, but if you have barely slept for 36 hours, I don’t think falling asleep for 6.5 extra hours is so unusual. > [@](#): > > In the past 4 hours before heading to bed not one of us had drunk or eaten anything at all and we don’t drink alcohol. If you were under-nourished you would probably sleep longer than expected. > [@Welltravelled](#): > > We wouldn’t know, we were knocked out fast. Since nobody came into your room and put a chloroformed rag over your mouths, I wonder how fast you could really have been knocked out without warning by exposure to gas. On the other hand, if you lay down and went to sleep after a prolonged period of staying awake, I’d expect you to be unconscious in a hurry. > [@Welltravelled](#): > > Its one thing for one person to have a specific sleeping pattern. But two people, to behave in the exact same fashion, not likely! You don’t wake up at exactly the same time. This is completely wrong. You have two people in a room who have been asleep for a long time. It’s very likely that one of them (or even both) started moving around and making some noise as he or she began to wake up. This would have woken the other person, leading to both of you regaining consciousness at the same time. And since you had slept for so long, I think that makes it even more likely. > [@](#): > > I’m sure you’ve traveled with a partner and found one at least woke up at 8am or the other at 3am, briefly, to go to the toilet to do at least something as little as toss and turn. Yes. On the other hand, you’re neglecting the possibility that during this 15 1/2 hour rest, you might have woken up briefly without remembering it due to sheer tiredness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-said-gassings-were-all-fiction-how-do-you-explain-two-people-sleeping-16-hours/532987.md?page=4)