# Who says "script kiddies" are bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565 "2003-08-12T02:41:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/21 "2003-08-12T18:50:31Z")
**lno** - I take your point - I was just waiting for some smug “Use a _real_ operating system” comment. If Linux were the dominant operating system in the world, we’d have psychopathic kids writing viruses for that instead. The platform debate is old and rather pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![DogMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9c0ed/32.png) [@DogMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DogMom)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/22 "2003-08-12T20:32:05Z")
thanks, **lno** and **Futile Gesture**. I’ve written it down so I have it for future reference. (I’m sure I’ll need it eventually). Argh. DogDad says he’s pretty sure it’s clean now, though - he did manage to download the FixBlast.exe file from Symantec and run it. I’ve been searching all afternoon for fixes, preventatives, and firewall information, and it looks like I’m going to spend most of the evening installing patches, configuring firewalls, and praying we don’t get the damn virus again. Which’ll be interesting, considering that I think we got it from our ISP when we dialed in last night. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/23 "2003-08-12T20:58:31Z")
Just a clarification - your ISP most likely didn’t give it to you, but you did get it when you went online. The worm spreads by selecting random IP addresses (which are like mailing addresses for the US Post Office - they’re used to route data from computer to computer) and seeing if that computer is vulnerable. What probably happened is you went online, and an infected computer somewhere in the world randomly selected the IP address of your computer at that very moment, found that you were vulnerable, and infected you too. This is the kind of infection where you don’t have to do anything to receive it, other than just be online with a vulnerable system. There is a silver lining of sorts to this (and it galls me to admit it, as I agree with what **CharlesW** said above) - there was no nasty destructive payload included with this, so your data wasn’t lost, and your computer wasn’t ruined, and the end result is that you’ve learned a lesson in computer security, and it didn’t cost you much more than frustration, anger, and time. Basically, I’m just saying that it could have been worse. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/24 "2003-08-12T21:43:49Z")
Well, I’m of the mind that whoever did this is an asshole, but he does have a point- Microsoft, by allowing something to go out the door with so many flaws that it requires three years worth of periodic patches, is putting out a faulty product. Period. If a car company put out a car with that many glaringly obvious problems, they would be destroyed by lemon laws. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/25 "2003-08-12T21:54:58Z")
Airman, One of my computers at home runs linux. I get email’s from Redhat a few times a week notifying me of patches for linux three or four times a week. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/26 "2003-08-12T21:55:10Z")
Well, I’m of the mind and experience that you get what you pay for when it comes to software. If you want an operating system to use at home or for a small business, you pay a relative pittance and you accept that it will not have the performance of the software used on the space shuttle. If you want software that is so mission-critical that the addition of one line of code results in thousands of hours of exhaustive testing, then you pay through the nose to the tune of NASA’s budget. (Yes, there is a happy medium in there.) Running a critical application on a Microsoft OS, even their far-more-stable-than-its-predecessor Windows 2000, is a position that IMO is difficult to justify. ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/27 "2003-08-12T22:11:13Z")
My damn University has been kind enough to email me this virus _every fucking day_ via the all-student email list. I just got off the phone with the oncampus computer helpdesk, and he told me to forward the email to them. I’m wondering if he thought that out fully. I hope they’re running Macs. – Dragonblink, who is very very very thankful she hasn’t had the money to upgrade from Win98SE ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/28 "2003-08-12T22:11:21Z")
Linux is different. They make no bones about it being a work in progress, and because it’s open-source, you can make the improvements yourself. Windows comes out as a finished product. Their updates don’t make it work better, they solve problems that ought never have existed to begin with, especially since you are then at the mercy of a single entity to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/29 "2003-08-12T22:11:59Z")
Well, I’m one of those happy Mac OS X users, and I _still_ got (indirectly) hit by this damned thing. My sister is woefully computer non-savvy, and she got it. So guess who had to fix the problem? Me, of course. Thankfully, because of my paranoia about Microsoft, I have a firewall on my Windows XP computer (yes, I have a PC too) and I update Windows regularly. Because you can never be too careful when it comes to Windows. My sister had not been updating Windows regularly. I think after this, she will. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/30 "2003-08-12T23:12:28Z")
Dumb question: I took down my firewall recently in favor of just relying on the router. I’m assuming a hardware firewall will keep the virus away, no? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/31 "2003-08-12T23:36:06Z")
I was told that a hardware firewall was better. So far so good for me, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/32 "2003-08-12T23:42:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > Linux is different. They make no bones about it being a work in progress, and because it’s open-source, you can make the improvements yourself. > > Windows comes out as a finished product. Their updates don’t make it work better, they solve problems that ought never have existed to begin with, especially since you are then at the mercy of a single entity to fix it. I agree with everything you’ve said here, but I don’t see how it relates in the slightest to our last posts. If lemon laws were applied to the software industry, you would no longer see $50 products on the shelves of Electronics Boutique, as the effort required to ensure that their application Would Not Crash on a countless number of possible hardware configurations would be prohibitive. That’s the point I’m trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/33 "2003-08-12T23:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*Linux is different. They make no bones about it being a work in progress, and because it’s open-source, you can make the improvements yourself. > > Windows comes out as a finished product. Their updates don’t make it work better, they solve problems that ought never have existed to begin with, especially since you are then at the mercy of a single entity to fix it. \*\* This is pretty much total BS. There are many linux packages sold as commercial products with support and every thing. All over the net you find people saying that linux is a superior solution for people who want a real operating system. In fact I would say that many linux supporters would be upset with your characterization of linux as not quite ready for prime time. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/34 "2003-08-13T00:04:09Z")
It IS a superior operating system, because you’re not depending upon the benevolence of the Gates cabal to fix it. Look at it this way: It’s the difference between taking your car to the dealer every time it breaks, or buying the parts and fixing it yourself. If I knew what I were doing, I’d fix it myself. Windows won’t let you do that. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/35 "2003-08-13T00:31:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*It IS a superior operating system, because you’re not depending upon the benevolence of the Gates cabal to fix it. > > Look at it this way: It’s the difference between taking your car to the dealer every time it breaks, or buying the parts and fixing it yourself. If I knew what I were doing, I’d fix it myself. Windows won’t let you do that. \*\* Agian this seems pretty much wrong to me. By your criteria the hello world program in most intro to programming books is a superior operating system because you have access to the code so you can fix it. No some people think the linux is a superior operating system because they feel it is more functional, more robust or more lots of other things than windows. The open source aspect of it is only one part of why people feel it is better than windows. But that still does not change the fact that security holes are found all the time in various linux distributions and patches must be continually applied if you want to maintain a secure system. Which you have stated is pretty much unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/36 "2003-08-13T00:46:56Z")
> [@](#): > > ANYONE that creates a worm or virus should be forced to fix every single server they crash Most of these skripty kiddies have no real knowledge of coding, and are neither very bright nor very skilled. They destroy things by being hangers-on to the work of others, and by pretending they’re up to the level of the old school geeks and hackers. They probably couldn’t fix a problem if you gave them a list of written instructions. ---
**Author:** ![DogMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9c0ed/32.png) [@DogMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DogMom)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/37 "2003-08-13T01:47:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lno \* > \*\*Just a clarification - your ISP most likely didn’t give it to you, but you did get it when you went online. The worm spreads by selecting random IP addresses (which are like mailing addresses for the US Post Office - they’re used to route data from computer to computer) and seeing if that computer is vulnerable. > … > the end result is that you’ve learned a lesson in computer security, and it didn’t cost you much more than frustration, anger, and time. > > Basically, I’m just saying that it could have been worse. 🙂 \*\* Huh. I wondered how it worked. Thanks!🙂 Well, You’re right about the security. I’ve installed the patches that Microsoft supplied, \*\* and \*\*enabled the firewall. Thanks again for your help and your information. I REALLY appreciate it. 🙂 And yeah, I feel like such a :wally for not enabling the firewall in the first place. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/38 "2003-08-13T03:54:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Microsoft, by allowing something to go out the door with so many flaws that it requires three years worth of periodic patches, is putting out a faulty product. Period. Do you have the same opinion about the American legal system? That’s where the term “loophole” originated, y’know. There is NO WAY to guarantee total safety, Airman. You should know this. These aren’t glaringly obvious, accidental holes in a system… they are means of taking advantage of LEGITIMATE features of the operating system that the designers never anticipated. > [@](#): > > If a car company put out a car with that many glaringly obvious problems, they would be destroyed by lemon laws. So you think that, a century ago, cars were just as good, solid, and reliable as they are today? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Read\_Neck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@Read\_Neck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Read_Neck)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565/39 "2003-08-13T06:15:30Z")
> [@](#): > > “The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place.” - Douglas Adams This worm is a deliberate exploit of “Windows Messenger” (not Windows Instant Messenger) and NetBios. It’s shitty technology from the beginning. If you think the “patch” put out by Micro$oft fixed your problem I’d suggest you check out this [site](http://www.grc.com). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-says-script-kiddies-are-bad/194565.md?page=1)