# Who should be able to own a hospital? Jehovah's Witnesses? Christian Scientists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775 "2012-02-23T22:41:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/21 "2012-02-24T00:21:46Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I laughed out loud at the idea of a government run hospital being a replacement for a privately run hospital. Because you don’t want to admit that it would be better than a hospital run on superstition. > [@Trinopus](#): > > I’m pretty sure a string of wrongful death lawsuits would put them out of business. > > You might as well ask, “Can a Kali worshiper go out and strangle people at night in glorification of his goddess?” Sure. And if he gets caught, he goes to jail. The murderous version of Kali worship isn’t a powerful religion, so the rules are different for it. The analogy I was thinking of actually is a hospital run by Aztecs who sacrifice the occasional patient on an altar. That’s a close analogy to what a _Christian_ hospital does when it lets people suffer and die because of religion; killing people for Jesus is no better and no different than killing them for Kali or Huitzilpochtli. Christians are just more likely to get away with it because their religion is powerful here-and-now. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/22 "2012-02-24T00:27:49Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > (I’m still bitter about not being allowed to ask 15 year old girl on her third delivery whether she’d like to learn about contraception during my OB Clinical, yes.) :eek: ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/23 "2012-02-24T00:51:25Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Can a group of Christian Scientists buy a hospital, convert it to reading rooms, accept patients and operate as a licensed hospital? Okay, that’s ludicrous as well as being a simplistic stereotype of Christian Science, so let’s go with some slightly less ludicrous examples. > > Can a group of Jehovah’s Witnesses operate a licensed hospital that refuses to give blood transfusions? > > Can a group of Hindus operate a licensed hospital that refuses to use any animal derived medications or treatments? Can a Hindu pharmacist do the same? (I’m not positive that Hindus have such restrictions, so correct me if I’m wrong about that.) > > I’m not posting this to be inflammatory. I think there’s an interesting and important question here regarding medical treatment and religious freedom and I think it could be helpful to discuss it without the emotional and political baggage attached to conception and pregnancy. > > My initial thoughts: A hospital is a limited commodity. A given community can only support a limited number of hospitals. Groups that refuse to offer the full spectrum of available and medically approved treatments should not be able to control this commodity. > > I don’t feel totally comfortable with that opinion, but I feel less comfortable with allowing hospitals to base care on anything other than currently accepted scientific medical thinking. Not every hospital has to provide every service. Not every hospital has an emergency room, for example. Not every hospital has a maternity ward. Now, it is true that if EVERY hospital were to exclude certain services, that would be unacceptable. Obviously, there needs to be a certain level of emergency care available within a given community. But this is why the key word “licensed” is so important. If there are already many hospitals in the community that have emergency services, to take this example further, then it is fine if a new hospital is licensed without that service. If there are not enough emergency services, than it should not be licensed unless it includes those services. The burden is on the licensers to decide what is necessary for the community as a whole, not the hospital owners. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/24 "2012-02-24T00:55:47Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I’d rather full sentences. pedant’s note: this is, in fact, a complete and grammatically-correct sentence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/25 "2012-02-24T01:21:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any _legal_ minimums when it comes to an organization calling itself a “hospital”? This is exactly it. Every hospital is “limited care” by some standard. > [@OP](#): > > A hospital is a limited commodity. A given community can only support a limited number of hospitals. Groups that refuse to offer the full spectrum of available and medically approved treatments should not be able to control this commodity. Well, everything is a limited commodity, but I question just how “limited” hospitals are. I suspect that if you have a hospital which doesn’t do blood transfusions, it’s not going to get a lot patrons and there is going to plenty of room for another hospital to exist. And as I said above, not hospital offers a “full spectrum” of medically approved treatments. Besides, your hypothetical JW doctor would have to actually be a doctor in order to practice medicine. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/26 "2012-02-24T02:23:34Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > I snipped out the middle part because I don’t even support that kind of loophole, but the above seems cut and dry to me. I was just saying that it’s not worth quibbling over some inconsequential exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/27 "2012-02-24T02:31:20Z")
How many actual qualified medical doctors are there who have religious exceptions to blood transfusions? There’s gotta be some JW doctors, but do they ignore this particular dogma? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/28 "2012-02-24T02:35:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is exactly it. Every hospital is “limited care” by some standard. But it doesn’t answer my question at all. Is there a legal minimum limit to what services a hospital provides before it can no longer call itself a hospital? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/29 "2012-02-24T02:35:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > How many actual qualified medical doctors are there who have religious exceptions to blood transfusions? There’s gotta be some JW doctors, but do they ignore this particular dogma? That’s an interesting question. Would a doctor who refused to order a life saving transfusion get to keep his license? If not, why should a hospital be any different? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/30 "2012-02-24T02:36:45Z")
Suppose I have a religious calling and believe that I can heal, and should charge for it. A laying on of hands. Can the state prohibit me from calling myself Dr. Second healer of all medical complaints and opening a place of worship? I suspect so. The practice of medicine is subject to state regulation. How about insurance? I sell health insurance only to very orthodox Christian Scientists to help them comply with the health care laws, but as a matter of doctrine, it cannot cover anything, therefore it is cheap. (I read the CM weekly magazine, and they seem to be alarmed at the health care reform going on). ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/31 "2012-02-24T02:58:51Z")
Anyone who follows the relevant rules and laws should be able to run a hospital or call him/herself an M.D. Communities should be able to decide what these regulations are. Investors/Philanthropists/Bronze-age-myth-believers who want to run such institutions must comply with such regulations. Communities will have to accept the pros and cons of the regulations so enacted. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/32 "2012-02-24T03:04:06Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Anyone who follows the relevant rules and laws should be able to run a hospital or call him/herself an M.D. Uh, no. A community should _not_ have the power to determine whether someone qualifies to be an MD. Way too risky. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/33 "2012-02-24T03:19:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Uh, no. A community should _not_ have the power to determine whether someone qualifies to be an MD. Way too risky. I used community loosely. In the case of professional regulation “community” means some sort of certifying body, NOT homeowners’ assoc. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/34 "2012-02-24T03:19:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But it doesn’t answer my question at all. Is there a legal minimum limit to what services a hospital provides before it can no longer call itself a hospital? I wasn’t trying to answer your question-- I don’t know the answer. I was just noting that you were asking the right question. I’m surprised no one else is paying attention to it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/35 "2012-02-24T03:24:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I wasn’t trying to answer your question-- I don’t know the answer. I was just noting that you were asking the right question. I’m surprised no one else is paying attention to it. Sorry about that, then. It does make sense to find out what you _can_ do before you decide what you _will_ do, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/36 "2012-02-24T03:39:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sorry about that, then. It does make sense to find out what you _can_ do before you decide what you _will_ do, doesn’t it? That would be too obvious. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/37 "2012-02-24T03:43:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any _legal_ minimums when it comes to an organization calling itself a “hospital”? That’s the question. It’s what I meant in post #8 when I talked about the spectrum of facilities ranging from reading rooms to a full hospital practicing modern medicine with no irrational restrictions. Where do we draw the line on what we allow to call itself a hospital? I assume that the word “hospital” in defined is relevant statutes. So I suppose the proper question might be “how much do we allow that definition to be compromised in deference to religious freedom before we start pulling licenses?” A similar question would apply to pharmacies and pharmacists. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/38 "2012-02-24T03:49:27Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Assuming, of course, there is someone around who wants to run and operate a hospital. Because if not, then you end up hurting more people than your purportedly want to help. See I have no issue here, our government run our public hospitals and if you want to go private you can. My friend’s child was born in a Masonic hospital and the goat sacrifice was completely optional and yes a catholic hospital may refuse an abortion but given that they are never the only game in town it is not a problem. It only becomes a problem if the government shirk their responsibility and shove it out the private sector to fund without strict rules in place to ensure continuity of offer. Socialized medicine still rocks! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/39 "2012-02-24T03:57:06Z")
Well, I dunno where the line is, but I gotta assume not doing blood transfusions ain’t exactly near the border. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775/40 "2012-02-24T04:04:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I dunno where the line is, but I gotta assume not doing blood transfusions ain’t exactly near the border. Would requiring it violate their religious freedom? Is it an acceptable violation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-be-able-to-own-a-hospital-jehovahs-witnesses-christian-scientists/613775.md?page=3)