# Who should (not will) win this election: Obama or Romney? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403 "2012-05-29T00:44:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/121 "2012-08-03T07:26:31Z")
The Obama budget increases spending and taxes while running large deficits as far as the eye can see. it keeps spending at permanently high levels, near 24% of GDP. The Ryan budget cuts spending back to historical levels and gets us back to sustainability. [http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/07/the-economic-bullishness-behind-the-ryan-budget/](http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/07/the-economic-bullishness-behind-the-ryan-budget/) > **[CBO Report On Paul Ryan 2012 Budget Plan | PDF | Baseline (Budgeting) |...](https://www.scribd.com/document/86234429/CBO-Report-on-Paul-Ryan-2012-Budget-Plan)** > > Scribd is the world's largest social reading and publishing site. > **[An Analysis of the President's 2013 Budget](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/43083)** > > The analysis is based on CBO's economic projections and estimating techniques (rather than the Administration's) and incorporates estimates by the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation for the President's tax proposals. In addition, the CBO says the Obama budget reduces economic growth in the long term, while Ryan’s plan increases economic growth: > **[CBO estimates Obama’s 2013 budget plan would hit economic growth](https://thehill.com/policy/finance/112061-cbo-estimates-obamas-2013-budget-plan-would-hit-economic-growth/)** > > After five years, the CBO says the Obama proposals would reduce economic output by between 0.5 percent and 2.2 percent.  ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/122 "2012-08-03T15:49:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but if his plan cuts spending by $6 trillion, how is that not $6 trillion in deficit reduction is revenues are increasing? It may be a semantic point. One cannot reduce a deficit to below zero, it becomes a surplus. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/123 "2012-08-03T17:37:06Z")
The ten year deficit is $9-10 trillion, so $6 trillion in cuts gets it down to $3-4 trillion. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/124 "2012-08-03T18:12:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > His plan also increases revenue, from 15% of GDP to 19%. Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but if his plan cuts spending by $6 trillion, how is that not $6 trillion in deficit reduction is revenues are increasing? His plan doesn’t cut total spending by 6 trillion. He proposes 6 trillion in cuts. Programs that are not being cut will maintain the same funding while other programs would see their budgets increase. The problem with the Ryan Budget’s CBO scoring is they weren’t given free reign in scoring it. They had to make specific assumptions that may or may not prove to be true. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-unrealistic-assumptions-behind-paul-ryans-budget-numbers/2011/08/25/gIQAEZrePS\_blog.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-unrealistic-assumptions-behind-paul-ryans-budget-numbers/2011/08/25/gIQAEZrePS_blog.html) If we are deciding who should win based off budget plans so far I’d have to go with Obama because he’s actually put one forward for people to look at. The Romney/Ryan plan is still a complete mystery. If they want to cut spending I think they have an obligation to let us know exactly where they plan on cutting it from. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/125 "2012-08-03T18:20:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Tough choices. Can the President match that or even come close? To draw from the other thread; no, Obama does not have a written plan to wreck the US government. Score one for Ryan. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/126 "2012-08-04T07:02:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Kiwis do but I don’t have to and don’t intend to. And if I find NZ to be disagreeable, I have a couple of other countries to go to. Why waste time and money moving to a new country each and every time it finally dawns on you: _“Shit!! You mean to tell me that THIS country has a government TOO?!?!?”_ Relax! Spare yourself the constant jet-lag, and pocket the $500,000 you’ll save in air-freight bills. Just move to Somalia or North Korea straightaway. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/127 "2012-08-04T21:58:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Obama budget increases spending and taxes while running large deficits as far as the eye can see. it keeps spending at permanently high levels, near 24% of GDP. The Ryan budget cuts spending back to historical levels and gets us back to sustainability. > > [http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/07/the-economic-bullishness-behind-the-ryan-budget/](http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/07/the-economic-bullishness-behind-the-ryan-budget/) > > [CBO Report On Paul Ryan 2012 Budget Plan | PDF | Baseline (Budgeting) | United States Federal Budget](http://www.scribd.com/doc/86234429/CBO-Report-on-Paul-Ryan-2012-Budget-Plan) > > [An Analysis of the President's 2013 Budget](http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43083) > > In addition, the CBO says the Obama budget reduces economic growth in the long term, while Ryan’s plan increases economic growth: > [http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/222767-cbo-sees-obama-budget-reducing-growth-in-long-term](http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/222767-cbo-sees-obama-budget-reducing-growth-in-long-term) The wealthy elite and the corporations are swimming in money. We do not need “economic growth.” What we NEED is a new relationship between the wealthy and the middle class. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/128 "2012-09-02T02:04:32Z")
Having watched the Republican National Convention this week, I have to say we’re really fucked if Obama doesn’t win this. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/129 "2012-09-02T02:17:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Having watched the Republican National Convention this week, I have to say we’re really fucked if Obama doesn’t win this. You definitely will be. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/130 "2012-09-02T15:16:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You definitely will be. Are you offering a conciliation prize? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/131 "2012-09-02T16:25:05Z")
Get a room, you guys! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/132 "2012-09-14T16:48:03Z")
One more reason: Better by far to have a gaffe-machine like Biden than a lie-machine like Ryan a heartbeat away from the OO. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/133 "2012-09-15T04:04:49Z")
Biden’s actually a pretty smart, serious guy, don’t let the gaffes fool you. And Ryan’s very honest, at least by DC standards. Most of what the fact checkers dinged him on was baloney. If anything, the fact checkers got exposed during the Ryan controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/134 "2012-09-15T13:07:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Biden’s actually a pretty smart, serious guy, don’t let the gaffes fool you. > > And Ryan’s very honest, at least by DC standards. Most of what the fact checkers dinged him on was baloney. If anything, the fact checkers got exposed during the Ryan controversy. Your second statement is intriguing - would you be willing to start another thread on Ryan’s acceptance speech and what the fact-checkers got wrong? I agree that Biden is a smart and serious guy, but he’s also gaffe-prone. On the smart/serious side, I started reading the speech he gave at Shanksville, PA this past September 11th. I was reminded that Biden lost his wife and daughter just after he was first elected to the Senate. Biden’s speech on 09/11/12 was so searingly beautiful I could not finish reading it. On the gaffe side, there are many examples. We now return to our thread, already in progress. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/135 "2012-10-30T21:26:58Z")
Well, Obama seems to have responded very presidentially to Hurricane Sandy. Romney, OTOH, had a canned-goods drive . . . the Red Cross does not need canned goods right now. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403/136 "2012-10-30T23:02:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Having watched the Republican National Convention this week, I have to say we’re really fucked if Obama doesn’t win this. And we’re only less fucked if Obama wins it. “We” cannot win this election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-not-will-win-this-election-obama-or-romney/623403.md?page=6)