# Who should pay Reparations to African Americans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 19, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753 "2019-06-19T16:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/181 "2019-06-20T18:38:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > How about those who were harmed by redlining, sued the banks and collected? Do they get to collect twice? > > How about the Native Americans, are we going to give them reparations? > > How about the Hispanics, where racism is ongoing and a major feature of the current administration? These are reasonable questions that should be researched and discussed. A comprehensive and rigorous program of historical research could do a lot to answer a lot of these reasonable questions that have been put forward. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/182 "2019-06-20T18:39:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What you describe as “increased investment in minority communities” could be a huge part of a reparations discussion. TNC himself says that reparations could come in many forms, and would not necessarily require “cash payments” to anyone. I think you should try reading his arguments again if you missed this. Bu, last time I checked, he only favors reparations to the Blacks, not native Americans, who were harmed the most, and certainly not to asians (like the Chinese workers in the west) or Hispanics. Or Irish “No Irish need apply”. That’s pretty damn racist. where does it end? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/183 "2019-06-20T18:40:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Bu, last time I checked, he only favors reparations to the Blacks, not native Americans, who were harmed the most, and certainly not to asians (like the Chinese workers in the west) or Hispanics. Or Irish “No Irish need apply”. This is incorrect; TNC has explicitly advocated that discrimination against other groups (in particular Native Americans) must be considered in any reparations program. I recommend reading up on TNC’s arguments since it appears you are not familiar with them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/184 "2019-06-20T18:41:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Thankfully, he doesn’t advocate it be done by fiat, but rather by the normal democratic legislative process – the same process that resulted in reparations for Japanese-American internees. Did you consider those reparations “flippant”? No, but they were paid to people who were still alive and clearly identifiable. Reparations for something that happened so long ago that no one alive remembers it is a entirely different thing. And dont bring up “redlining” as recent, since many sued and collected. How do you identify who is “black”? Or just those who are descendants of slaves? Records of those are very poor. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/185 "2019-06-20T18:44:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If so, should be a very inexpensive program. > > I’d go about this by passing something like HR 40, set up a commission of historians and researchers who can dig into records and conduct interviews, with lots of publicity to invite people to come forward and tell their stories. With a combination of historical records, private records and correspondence, and interviews, and lots of hard work, we should be able to identify with some level of confidence those living Americans who lived in areas that were economically depressed by Redlining policies, as well as (possibly) those Americans who specifically denied loans or loan assistance due to these discriminatory policies. > > Just the first steps, of course. How about instead of funding that with taxpayer money, they get together and find some attorneys willing to work off a percentage of what they get? It sounds like it could be lucrative. I mean, it already was, once ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/186 "2019-06-20T18:45:26Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > No, TNC has not made that case. He has made a very persuasive case regarding the harm that redlining caused, but not that the federal government was responsible. The maps were created to plot out risk areas. You haven’t shown they were done with the intent of calling out racial groupings. Much like an actuary would map out zip codes for higher premiums on auto insurance because of increased risk of loss in frequency and severity. If the census captures race based data, and then someone uses that data for nefarious purposes, census takers aren’t culpable for that. That’s the level you’re at right now. > > The US government certainly has more responsibility when it comes to segregation, though I have yet to see a case made strong enough to support reparations. If in 1950 a business owner excluded blacks, I’m not seeing how the US Taxpayer is responsible. Forgot to mention that the US goverment’s culpability for Redlining (and similar policies) is the same as its culpability for slavery – it allowed these harmful discriminatory practices to be executed in its borders and under its authority. If rape was legal in the US (say, marital rape) at some point, then the US government bears some culpability for any rapes that it considered legal. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/187 "2019-06-20T18:46:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, but they were paid to people who were still alive and clearly identifiable. Reparations for something that happened so long ago that no one alive remembers it is a entirely different thing. And dont bring up “redlining” as recent, since many sued and collected. Ha! Don’t bring up a program you don’t want to talk about. Okay, how about segregation? Do you believe the US government bears any culpability for the harm caused by segregation? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/188 "2019-06-20T18:47:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In the present, this is true. This isn’t about passing any bills (aside from maybe a commission or a study) now, but starting the conversation for possible action in the future. > > We definitely should also discuss reparations for the many policies and practices of the US government that harmed (and continue to harm) Native Americans. TNC has also said this many times. … That’s a bad idea. Once we “start the conversation” if checks for millions arent forthcoming (and yes, Millions, that’s what many think they are owed) people will get angry that no $M check is forthcoming, and this will just hurt race relations. Not to mention, they will be the victims of scams, like what happened with tax scams a decade or so ago, where Blacks were scammed into claiming a “40 acres and a mule” tax credit. Reparations will do nothing but hurt race relations in the USA. Whites like myself, whose ancestors fought for the Union, never held a slave and whose recent ancestors fought for racial equality will be angry because we will see our tax bills doubled just like the sons of slaveholders. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/189 "2019-06-20T18:48:02Z")
n/m ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/190 "2019-06-20T18:48:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s a bad idea. Once we “start the conversation” if checks for millions arent forthcoming (and yes, Millions, that’s what many think they are owed) people will get angry that no $M check is forthcoming, and this will just hurt race relations. Not to mention, they will be the victims of scams, like what happened with tax scams a decade or so ago, where Blacks were scammed into claiming a “40 acres and a mule” tax credit. > > Reparations will do nothing but hurt race relations in the USA. > > Whites like myself, whose ancestors fought for the Union, never held a slave and whose recent ancestors fought for racial equality will be angry because we will see our tax bills doubled just like the sons of slaveholders. Thank you for your contribution. I disagree with your reasoning, but thanks anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/191 "2019-06-20T18:49:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This doesn’t answer my question. Here it is again: Do you believe the US government has any culpability for the harm done by segregation?. You have not yet demonstrated the truth of the premises on which your question is based. So, I guess the answer is “not so far”. Do you believe any of the following groups are culpable, and should pay, for segregation? [ul][li]White people[/li][li]Black people[/li][li]Asians[/li][li]People who immigrated to the US after 1964[/li][li]People who were born after 1964[/li][li]People in states with no legally-mandated segregation prior to 1964[/li][li]People who benefited from social programs implemented after 1964[/li][/ul] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/192 "2019-06-20T18:49:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > We’ve had numerous threads about this already, but here goes: > \*\*1. \*\*There is no way to do such a reparations program without causing massive anger and resentment - an anger that could end up setting race relations back. It is likely to piss off a big chunk of the populace. > > 1. There is no way to do this and properly identify who should get paid. A black American who can prove a direct history to slave ancestors? Okay, maybe. What about someone who is only 1/32 black, looks white, and has always been treated as a white person, but claims “I’m black too, I want my money?” What about black people who immigrated from Africa recently and have no familial connection to slavery whatsoever? What about [black people who owned slaves](https://www.theroot.com/did-black-people-own-slaves-1790895436)? > > \*\*3. \*\* You can’t pay many millions of people something like $100,000 apiece and not have it lead to massive financial chaos. That adds up to a sum of trillions. Are we going to raise taxes sky-high? Borrow trillions more and add to the national debt? > > \*\*4. \*\* Where does this stop? Do Hispanics, Asians, Arabs, Muslims, Native Americans, women, atheists, gays, lesbians, deserve reparations? We’ve had centuries of misogyny, haven’t we? We’ve had centuries of anti-LGBT discrimination, haven’t we? Eventually we would be handing everyone reparations (except, maybe, white straight men.) All excellent points. Yes, i forgot the way we treated women in the past, not to mention the rest. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/193 "2019-06-20T18:50:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You have not yet demonstrated the truth of the premises on which your question is based. Which premise? The premise is that some living Americans were harmed by segregation. Do you disagree? > [@](#): > > Do you believe any of the following groups are culpable, and should pay, for segregation? > [ul][li]White people[/li][li]Black people[/li][li]Asians[/li][li]People who immigrated to the US after 1964[/li][li]People who were born after 1964[/li][li]People in states with no legally-mandated segregation prior to 1964[/li][li]People who benefited from social programs implemented after 1964[/li][/ul] > Regards, > Shodan I believe the US government is culpable, and would be responsible for any reparations program. The US government includes and is funded by people in all of those categories. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/194 "2019-06-20T18:51:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This doesn’t answer my question. Here it is again: Do you believe the US government has any culpability for the harm done by segregation? I cannot find evidence that segregation was ever a US law. In 1870, after the end of the Civil War, the US passed the Civil Rights Act of 1875 forbidding racial segregation in accommodations. Now, many states had laws allowing or mandating segregation, but not the US government. So, no, I do not believe that the US is culpable in the existence of segregation. **But even if they were** , while there would be a to quantify **who** was harmed, the extent of the harm, or assessing a reasonable value of the harm would be all but impossible. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/195 "2019-06-20T18:51:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ha! Don’t bring up a program you don’t want to talk about. Okay, how about segregation? Do you believe the US government bears any culpability for the harm caused by segregation? No. It was fixed. How about the harm to women, natives, hispanics, gays, jews, Irish, Chinese…? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/196 "2019-06-20T18:53:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is incorrect; TNC has explicitly advocated that discrimination against other groups (in particular Native Americans) must be considered in any reparations program. I recommend reading up on TNC’s arguments since it appears you are not familiar with them. He’s is too long and too full of bullshit to read. Ok, he mentions native Americas. Does he also mention gays, Irish, Chinese, hispanics, women, and so forth? Does everyone but white straight males get a check? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/197 "2019-06-20T18:53:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No. It was fixed. How was this harm fixed? Do you mean segregation ended? I suppose this must mean that you opposed reparations for the Japanese American internees, then, since that was “fixed” as much as segregation (i.e. it ended). > [@](#): > > How about the harm to women, natives, hispanics, gays, jews, Irish, Chinese…? All reasonable to consider. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/198 "2019-06-20T18:54:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Just like many Americans who suffered under segregation, Redlining, and other discriminatory policies and practices. Redlining was settled by lawsuits. People keep mentioning it, but it was fairly long ago, and lawsuits settled. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/199 "2019-06-20T18:56:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He’s is too long and too full of bullshit to read. Ok, he mentions native Americas. Does he also mention gays, Irish, Chinese, hispanics, women, and so forth? He said explicitly he’s open to exploring any harm done by past discriminatory policies, against any group of people. But if you’re not interested in reading his writing, then there’s probably not much possibility of productive discussion that’s largely based on his writing. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Redlining was settled by lawsuits. People keep mentioning it, but it was fairly long ago, and lawsuits settled. For a very small number of Americans, perhaps. There are many Americans who suffered under Redlining but did not benefit from those lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/200 "2019-06-20T18:57:00Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > I cannot find evidence that segregation was ever a US law. In 1870, after the end of the Civil War, the US passed the Civil Rights Act of 1875 forbidding racial segregation in accommodations. Now, many states had laws allowing or mandating segregation, but not the US government. So, no, I do not believe that the US is culpable in the existence of segregation. **But even if they were** , while there would be a to quantify **who** was harmed, the extent of the harm, or assessing a reasonable value of the harm would be all but impossible. What if it wasn’t “impossible”? What if it was entirely possible? Would you be in support then? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753.md?page=11)