# Who should pay Reparations to African Americans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 19, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753 "2019-06-19T16:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/81 "2019-06-19T21:47:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I believe we should start with the relatively recent government policies that harmed living Americans. It seems to me that this is something completely different than “reparations for slavery”. Are any politicians or activists actually proposing this or discussing this at all? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/82 "2019-06-19T21:51:19Z")
Would the reparations be a one time thing to the blacks currently living on a certain date? What about the baby born on the next day, week, or month that still has the same issues as their parents and siblings? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/83 "2019-06-19T21:54:33Z")
Will the United States government go after money from the Afrixan countries that were involved in the slave trade? Will decendents of slaves that were raped get more money for the additional crimes perpetrated against their ancestors? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/84 "2019-06-19T22:01:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The just, fair way to do it would have been immediately: At the close of the Civil War, every former slaveholder should have been forced to pay back wages to all of their slaves, with their estates confiscated and sold if necessary to make it happen. > > The fact that we didn’t do that when we should have doesn’t mean that we’re now off the hook. It means that now, black people are owed that much plus a century and a half of interest. And, yes, the payments should only go to those who were personally disadvantaged by slavery… which is all blacks living in America. The evils of slavery didn’t end with slavery itself. Black people are still poor, are still discriminated against, and still have a harder life than white people, and it’s ultimately because of slavery. > > As for who should pay it, at this late remove, the only possible answer is US taxpayers. And as a taxpayer, I’m OK with that, even though none of my ancestors ever actually owned slaves. Solving the problem is more important than assigning blame. I disagree entirely. First, slavery was a much greater tort than simply withholding wages. Back-paying slaves for their labor would hardly have even put a dent in the damage. Imagine a civil suit today where a kidnapper sues his or her assailant for keeping him locked up, beaten, and forced to a life of hard labor. Then her children were stolen and sold. The payout would be in the millions. Nobody would even think about the “lost wages” aspect of it. It would be millions upon millions. Now multiply that by every slave and all of their descendants. Now add interest accordingly. Second, I disagree with your statement that “all blacks living in America” suffered from slavery. There are plenty of black families who immigrated here well after slavery was abolished. There are black men, like President Obama, whose African ancestors came here very recently, but whose white ancestors actually owned slaves! That’s not the same as, say, Alex Haley’s children. I understand you’re saying that all blacks in American suffer from racism, but that’s an entirely different monster than slavery. I do agree that solving the problem is more important than assigning blame. I’m not sure that a monetary payout is actually going to solve anything, though. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/85 "2019-06-19T22:05:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If reparations were successful, the vast majority of black Americans would truly feel like they lived in a just and fair society. I can’t imagine that could possibly be the case, unless the bar by which success is measured is set so high as to be unattainable. No amount of money could adequately compensate the ancestral legacy of slavery. To even come close to compensating the millions of African Americans would require the equivalent of multiple years of the US’s entire GDP. Some reparation payment either directly or indirectly would probably be welcome to the community, but its not as if it will suddenly make blacks equal to whites in society. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/86 "2019-06-19T22:07:54Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I’m not sure we can actually afford to make things right with everyone simply by paying them off. I agree with you in general about the difficulty of recompense high enough to make up for immense injustices without creating an economic injustice on everyone else. I’d go further: in my opinion, it’s _literally impossible_ to make things right by paying people off. The vast majority of the injustices were and are negative-sum. As a _whole_, we are all hurt by the war on drugs, and inefficient labor markets caused by discrimination and education shortfalls, and the injustice of blatant discrimination by police is even more clearly negative-sum, since the minute twinge of joy a handful of people experience when they get someone to look down on is dwarfed by the danger and stress on the victims, with no benefit to the non-bigoted masses, who indeed, are paying out of their own pockets for inefficient policing. So, since society as a whole is worse off, everyone cannot be made just as good as if the injustice had not happened: someone will be worse off, even given a hypothetical unanimity in who was hurt by how much. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/87 "2019-06-19T22:17:06Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > All the talk about Redlining in this thread: is that actually part of the national discussion on reparations, or is that just something you brought up here? Is anyone actually asking about reparations being paid for victims of racist business practices or Jim Crow laws? I’ve only ever heard reparations brought up as a payment for descendants of slaves because of _slavery_. > I haven’t seen or heard any of the recent reparations talk, however. I’m only just aware that it is being discussed again. Yes, it’s absolutely part of the conversation, and the policies that harmed living Americans are indeed an integral part of TNC’s argument for reparations (TNC is the most prominent advocate for reparations). ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/88 "2019-06-19T22:20:38Z")
I think the only really fair thing to do is to not pay individual people anything. Create an endowment that establishes large, free women’s hospitals in the [10 largest predominantly black cities in America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_African-American_populations), as well as the capital of every slave-owning state not on that list. Each hospital can be named after great, anti-slave activists, former slaves, prominent leaders, etc. The hospitals will be established in the areas that are most predominantly black. So if there is a neighborhood that is statistically 90% black in one of the cities that is 70% black, then the hospital gets built in the middle of that neighborhood. By the very nature of their location, the vast majority of the citizens they serve will be black. Because of present day discrimination laws, they will not discriminate based on color or race. They will offer free women’s services to people of all colors. So there’s no, “prove you’re black for free service”. If Whitey McWhitestein wants a free pap smear, she just has to drive across town to the “bad” neighborhood and wait in line at the Harriet Tubman Federal Reparations Women’s Hospital. It’s up to her. How much would that cost? It’s the federal government, so maybe an endowment isn’t necessary. They could just build the hospitals and keep them permanently funded. indefinitely. This way, a formal acknowledgement is made by the government, money is put toward a good purpose that actually helps the community, and since the hospitals are funded indefinitely, the total amount of money spent on reparations is “infinite”, much like the damage and suffering caused by slavery. Who wouldn’t support that idea? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/89 "2019-06-19T22:23:03Z")
Is reparations the right term at all? It seems to me that the discussion is now revolving around real efforts (including funding) to undo systemic inequalities. I support that, but it’s an entirely different project than one that hands out a check to individuals. Reparations sounds like the latter endeavor. I am also skeptical of efforts to repair society that do not look at society as a whole, and do not include Native Americans, women, the Chinese, the disabled, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/90 "2019-06-19T22:26:45Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I think the only really fair thing to do is to not pay individual people anything. Create an endowment that establishes large, free women’s hospitals in the [10 largest predominantly black cities in America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_African-American_populations), as well as the capital of every slave-owning state not on that list. Each hospital can be named after great, anti-slave activists, former slaves, prominent leaders, etc. The hospitals will be established in the areas that are most predominantly black. So if there is a neighborhood that is statistically 90% black in one of the cities that is 70% black, then the hospital gets built in the middle of that neighborhood. > By the very nature of their location, the vast majority of the citizens they serve will be black. Because of present day discrimination laws, they will not discriminate based on color or race. They will offer free women’s services to people of all colors. So there’s no, “prove you’re black for free service”. If Whitey McWhitestein wants a free pap smear, she just has to drive across town to the “bad” neighborhood and wait in line at the Harriet Tubman Federal Reparations Women’s Hospital. It’s up to her. > How much would that cost? It’s the federal government, so maybe an endowment isn’t necessary. They could just build the hospitals and keep them permanently funded. indefinitely. > This way, a formal acknowledgement is made by the government, money is put toward a good purpose that actually helps the community, and since the hospitals are funded indefinitely, the total amount of money spent on reparations is “infinite”, much like the damage and suffering caused by slavery. Who wouldn’t support that idea? Thanks for this idea. I’m not sure if this is the best way to go forward, but it’s a good-faith effort, and I think all such good-faith efforts should be considered. I’m in favor of a period of very rigorous research, including a look at historical records, private financial records, interviews, and much more, to determine the actual harm these policies did, especially to living Americans. With that information, we could entertain different ideas to make up for these various financial losses – the idea wouldn’t necessarily be “Jim would have $1 million dollars more wealth had he had the opportunity to get a loan and buy a house in X neighborhood”, but rather “Jim’s family would have been likely to have a middle class existence had this and that discriminatory policy not been in place”, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/91 "2019-06-19T22:27:53Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Is reparations the right term at all? It seems to me that the discussion is now revolving around real efforts (including funding) to undo systemic inequalities. I support that, but it’s an entirely different project than one that hands out a check to individuals. Reparations sounds like the latter endeavor. I am also skeptical of efforts to repair society that do not look at society as a whole, and do not include Native Americans, women, the Chinese, the disabled, and so on. I think it would be impossible and extremely unfair to consider these sorts of policies without considering, at the least, the harm done to Native Americans, which in my understanding is the only group that suffered anything comparable, in the long term, to what African Americans suffered, due to government policies and practices. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/92 "2019-06-19T22:55:33Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > There is no question that compensation is due African American descendants of slaves I deny your premise. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/93 "2019-06-19T23:22:01Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Half of American blacks are middle class. \ In 2017, the median household income for blacks was a little over $40,000. How on earth is that middle class? > **[Income and Wealth in the United States: An Overview of the Latest Data](https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2023/11/income-and-wealth-in-the-united-states-an-overview-of-recent-data)** > > Income levels for Americans vary across geography, race, and gender. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/94 "2019-06-19T23:25:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Justice that strengthens the community at large, sure. That would strengthen the country as well. Not concerned about the communities ravaged by the US military? The point is, why focus on victims of a relatively harmless (as compared to a drone bombing for example) practice many years ago when there were people killed or maimed months, days, or minutes ago? Is it simply because they are foreigners? I ask because I sense a strong nationalism in American progressivism and social democrats and this seems like another example of it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/95 "2019-06-19T23:27:06Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Not concerned about the communities ravaged by the US military? > > The point is, why focus on victims of a relatively harmless (as compared to a drone bombing for example) practice many years ago when there were people killed or maimed months, days, or minutes ago? Is it simply because they are foreigners? Interesting topic that might be worthy of another thread, but I don’t think it has anything to do with this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/96 "2019-06-19T23:32:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I deny your premise. So if I can prove to you and show you evidence that I am a direct descendant of 2 slaves, you do not believe I am owed anything - not even an apology?:dubious::mad: ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/97 "2019-06-19T23:38:01Z")
Some think that [this apology](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93059465) is insufficient. Do you consider it an apology? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/98 "2019-06-19T23:46:26Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > So if I can prove to you and show you evidence that I am a direct descendant of 2 slaves, you do not believe I am owed anything - not even an apology?:dubious::mad: No, not at all. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/99 "2019-06-20T00:54:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you opposed reparations for Japanese American internees, I presume? IIRC, those were given to the actual internees, not their descendents, or just Japanese Americans in general. I can’t see it as being practical, and I too think it will only end up with, “we paid you off, so go away, we shouldn’t have to do anything else.” It’s a nice idea in theory, but in the real world, will it work? I’m skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753/100 "2019-06-20T01:07:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I can’t see it as being practical, and I too think it will only end up with, “we paid you off, so go away, we shouldn’t have to do anything else.” I agree with this. If reparations are paid, then any future complaints about racism will be met with “We gave you reparations, now shut up!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-pay-reparations-to-african-americans/835753.md?page=6)