# Who SHOULD win in Syria? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711 "2013-05-30T14:41:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/22 "2013-06-16T17:04:22Z")
Part of the problem is to work out who is fighting for what. Add to this who is supporting whom and also for what reason and the question really is impossible to answer. There is a risk of much more widespread ethnic warfare, and this might even suit certain amongst the supporting non-protagonists. Trying to imagine a democracy amongst all this is probably just a distant dream, possibly the best that can be hoped for is a non-partisan government that is able to provide stability and security without singling out any part of Syrian society for revenge treatment. That’s not a given, not by any means. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/23 "2013-06-17T05:26:05Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Can Assad stay in power indefinitely? . No. Not without sufficient public support. People think planes and tanks win wars and they don’t. It takes people to operate them and supplies to keep them going. When war is distilled down to this level it requires logistical support. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/24 "2013-06-17T05:45:26Z")
Public support is unnecessary for dictators. Force is what matters, and a lot of force can come from outside the country. The Assad regime has always been a Russian puppet. Not to mention that the Alawite minority in Syria also has support from the Palestinians and Shiite Lebanese, many of whom are entering the country to fight for Assad. ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/25 "2013-06-18T22:18:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Dammit. Who should I even be wanting to win this war?! That depends what you want Syria’s future to be like. If you want Syria to retain civilisation and development then you should want Assad to win. If you want Syria to end up like Libya, Iraq and Afghnaistan then you should support the cannibals. Assad runs a country based on the values of ex Egyptian president [Nasser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser). While the death squads backed by NATO and the Gulf monarchies would like to set up a theocracy based on backward tribal hatreds. One of their mottos is “Christians to the sea, Shiites to the grave”. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/26 "2013-06-19T01:57:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er… Whoever has the most support amongst the people of Syria. > > Are we going to argue that democracy is the best form of government except for Muslim Arabs who are too stupid to be allowed to have it. > > I’m reminded of JFK asking such a question regarding the blacks of Mississippi. This seems a little sensitive. If I say I want Labour to win the next UK general election, I don’t mean I hope they’ll seize power even if 75% of the country votes Conservative. I mean I hope people will see the same virtues I do in such a choice. Besides this, in the case of a war, popular support for one fighting side is not the same as democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/27 "2013-06-21T19:27:11Z")
I recall Kissinger once saying about the then Iran Iraq war, both countries ruled by unsavoury regimes, that it was a pity that both sides didn’t lose. Nobody voted the West, World Policeman, so we should stay out of it altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/28 "2013-06-21T19:59:22Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Nobody voted the West, World Policeman, so we should stay out of it altogether. This. No matter what we do somebody is going to shit all over us over it and maybe even retaliate. I don’t see a clear winner or friend in this endeavor regardless of the outcome. All we got out of Libya is the smug satisfaction of killing one person to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and the deaths of US diplomats and soldiers guarding them which nobody in the US seems to give even the tiniest concern over. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/29 "2013-06-21T19:59:45Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > That depends what you want Syria’s future to be like. If you want Syria to retain civilisation and development then you should want Assad to win. If you want Syria to end up like Libya, Iraq and Afghnaistan then you should support the cannibals. Well, I **do** want Syria to end up like Libya – some things are bad there, but the country is not on a bad course at all, all things considered. But I ain’t that optimistic that Syria **can** end this war that way. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/30 "2013-06-21T20:08:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Libya, at any rate, is not on a bad course. Well that would be nice if it happens. You have any good news to report? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/31 "2013-06-21T21:45:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > This. No matter what we do somebody is going to shit all over us over it and maybe even retaliate. I don’t see a clear winner or friend in this endeavor regardless of the outcome. All we got out of Libya is the smug satisfaction of killing one person to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and the deaths of US diplomats and soldiers guarding them which nobody in the US seems to give even the tiniest concern over. I don’t even think it matters. Europe responded to the Israeli-Arab conflict with arms embargoes and a fairly neutral policy, and were rewarded by widespread Palestinian terrorism. And I don’t know what the hell Argentina has to do with the Israeli-Arab conflict, but Hezbollah thought it would be cool to blow shit up there. I mean, these guys actually went to the trouble of infiltrating a Hezbollah operative into Argentina of all places to blow up a van full of explosives at a Jewish community center. There’s still a plaque honoring him in Lebanon. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/32 "2013-06-22T04:29:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well that would be nice if it happens. You have any good news to report? More in the nature of no news is good news. Haven’t heard about any pogroms. No ethnic cleansing since they did some taking-it-out on blacks right after the war. They’re still having trouble with the militias that haven’t disbanded, which occasionally clash with each other, but nobody expects them to try to overthrow new government, which is a government, and rather moderate. Only one party in the [General National Congress,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_National_Congress) the [Justice and Construction Party,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_and_Construction_Party) is Islamist (MB affiliate), and it only holds 17 seats out of 200. There is some secessionism in Benghazi but it’s not heating up, there’s not even that much support for a federal system. No woman who didn’t wear a burqa before the revolution is being forced to now, that I’ve heard of. No strongman shows any sign of emerging as the new dictator. All in all, not a bad track record, so far, for a people with absolutely no experience in democratic self-government in their history later than the ancient Greek colonies, and who were allowed to have absolutely no public political discussion outside official settings for 42 years. But, as I’ve said, I have slender hopes things can turn out that well in Syria. Libya is ethnically and religiously homogeneous by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/33 "2013-06-22T09:59:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I notice in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=670475) there is, now and then, a lotta hate for the Syrian rebels – for war crimes, cannibalism, inclusion of Islamist extremists. Also a lotta hate for the Assad regime, for all of the obvious reasons, plus for being an ally/puppet of Russia/Iran/Hezbollah. OTOH, some see Assad as a friend-to-Christians and to religious/ethnic minorities generally, who might well get savagely ethnic-cleansed, like in Iraq but worse (think 1970s-80s Lebanon on a bigger scale), if the rebels win. > > Dammit. Who should I even be wanting to win this war?! 😕☹ Anyone who is supported by Iran should not win. Iran is the ‘crazy guy,’ in the Middle East that most of the other countries see as unstable and problematic. Also, Assad was a vicious, evil dictator. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/34 "2013-06-22T12:39:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > More in the nature of no news is good news. Haven’t heard about any pogroms. No ethnic cleansing since they did some taking-it-out on blacks right after the war. They’re still having trouble with the militias that haven’t disbanded, which occasionally clash with each other, but nobody expects them to try to overthrow new government, which is a government, and rather moderate. Only one party in the [General National Congress,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_National_Congress) the [Justice and Construction Party,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_and_Construction_Party) is Islamist (MB affiliate), and it only holds 17 seats out of 200. There is some secessionism in Benghazi but it’s not heating up, there’s not even that much support for a federal system. No woman who didn’t wear a burqa before the revolution is being forced to now, that I’ve heard of. No strongman shows any sign of emerging as the new dictator. > > All in all, not a bad track record, so far, for a people with absolutely no experience in democratic self-government in their history later than the ancient Greek colonies, and who were allowed to have absolutely no public political discussion outside official settings for 42 years. > > But, as I’ve said, I have slender hopes things can turn out that well in Syria. Libya is ethnically and religiously homogeneous by comparison. Yes after British Special forces gave them the freedom to do whatever they liked, they smashed up, vandalised, and spray painted anti British slogans, at a British Army war Cemetary from WW2. Nice one cunts. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/35 "2013-06-22T18:46:22Z")
> [@esmeralda2](#): > > Anyone who is supported by Iran should not win. Iran is the ‘crazy guy,’ in the Middle East that most of the other countries see as unstable and problematic. Also, Assad was a vicious, evil dictator. Iran is one of the saner guys of the Middle East. The crazy guys would be Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwait, UAE, Yemen. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/36 "2013-06-22T19:41:37Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > This seems a little sensitive. > > If I say I want Labour to win the next UK general election, I don’t mean I hope they’ll seize power even if 75% of the country votes Conservative. I mean I hope people will see the same virtues I do in such a choice. Besides this, in the case of a war, popular support for one fighting side is not the same as democracy. In retrospect I may have overreacted. Certainly when I saw some British posters asking who they thought should win the the US presidential election I wouldn’t have reacted as such. Apologies to all concerned. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/37 "2013-06-23T05:34:15Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Iran is one of the saner guys of the Middle East. The crazy guys would be Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwait, UAE, Yemen. Really. And your qualifications to decide who us sane and who us crazy are…?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/38 "2013-06-23T05:40:48Z")
Rune, I don’t get your reasoning there. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have their problems, but their governments are entirely rational. Iran, on the other hand, not only supports worldwide terrorism, but actively aids attacks on countries that have nothing to do with their disputes, just to get at Jews. Again, I bring up Argentina. Iran went through a lot of trouble to attack Argentina, and that’s really what it was: a military attack by Iran against Argentina. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/39 "2013-06-23T06:08:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Rune, I don’t get your reasoning there. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have their problems, but their governments are entirely rational. Iran, on the other hand, not only supports worldwide terrorism, but actively aids attacks on countries that have nothing to do with their disputes, just to get at Jews. Again, I bring up Argentina. Iran went through a lot of trouble to attack Argentina, and that’s really what it was: a military attack by Iran against Argentina. Saudi Arabia’s government is “rational”? Beyond that, if you think think the Iranians or the Iranian government hates Jews more than the Saudis or the Pakistanis, well then you really don’t know much about the Middle East. Iran is certainly extremely anti-Semitic, but with the exception of Israel, it’s the only Middle Eastern country which still has a sizable Jewish population and the only country other than Israel that has Jews in it’s parliament(though obviously as tokens). I won’t pretend to understand Pakistan enough to comment on it, but I have no problem saying that the Iranian government, for all it’s flaws, is less odious than the Saudi government, just as I would say I’d rather be punched in the face than kicked in the nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/40 "2013-06-23T07:04:56Z")
Speaking for myself, while I consider Iran to be a greater threat to my country, currently, I have much more respect for the Iranians than I have for the Saudis and other Gulf nations. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711/41 "2013-06-23T07:22:45Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Yes after British Special forces gave them the freedom to do whatever they liked, they smashed up, vandalised, and spray painted anti British slogans, at a British Army war Cemetary from WW2. > > Nice one cunts. So what? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-should-win-in-syria/659711.md?page=3)