# Who sponsors ISIS, who started ISIS ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2015, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971 "2015-11-19T11:19:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/1 "2015-11-19T11:19:37Z")
Why can’t we stop them being sponsored ? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/2 "2015-11-19T11:34:14Z")
a. They founded themselves. b. It’s very hard to track international transfers of sums, especially in that part of teh world. See [hawalla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala): > [@](#): > > In the most basic variant of the hawala system, money is transferred via a network of hawala brokers, or hawaladars. It is the transfer of money without actually moving it. In fact, a successful definition of the hawala system that is used is “money transfer without money movement”. > > * * * > > The unique feature of the system is that no promissory instruments are exchanged between the hawala brokers; the transaction takes place entirely on the honour system. As the system does not depend on the legal enforceability of claims, it can operate even in the absence of a legal and juridical environment. Trust and extensive use of connections, such as family relations and regional affiliations, are the components that distinguish it from other remittance systems. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/3 "2015-11-19T11:36:26Z")
Hawalla interesting thanks. Is there a study on the role of hawalla in terrorism sponsorship ? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/4 "2015-11-19T11:55:19Z")
Why not intercept their phones ? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/5 "2015-11-19T12:00:58Z")
The Hawalla is not very relevant to the DAESH in the Syria and the Iraq. they make their money from the contraband smuggling and the oil smuggling as well as the extortion (or taxes if you want) in their controlled areas. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/6 "2015-11-19T12:06:45Z")
This lunatic has **much** the same idea… [**‘Shut down the parts of internet used by Islamic State masterminds’**](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/18/congressmen_want_to_shut_down_terrorist_parts_of_internet/?page=1) The Register _At an oversight hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Committee at which all five commissioners of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) were present, Joe Barton (R-TX) announced that he was “gonna go off script – but in a positive way.”_ … _“We just had this terrible attacks in Paris. We need to do something about it,” he told the subcommittee on communications and technology. “ISIS and the terrorist networks can’t beat us militarily but they are really trying to use the internet and the social media to intimidate and beat us psychologically. Isn’t there something we can do under existing law to shut those internet sites down?”_ … _Barton’s call to “make it much more difficult and hopefully absolutely shut it down” was subsequently supported by Congresswoman Anna Eshoo (D-CA) and Congressman Mike Doyle (D-PA). And all three voiced support of the idea of bringing in new legislation that would make it easier for the federal regulator to disrupt use of the internet by the Middle Eastern group. Or, as Barton put it, to “shut things down.”_ I really don’t know how these people remember how to put one foot in front of another when walking. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/7 "2015-11-19T12:11:48Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Why not intercept their phones ? Who says they aren’t? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/8 "2015-11-19T12:16:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Who says they aren’t? Well this is the thing, I assume that the Gulf states have perfectly good surveillance equipment, or can buy some if they want it. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/9 "2015-11-19T12:36:40Z")
ISIS are strictly one phone call per SIM. Throw it away. End of. Suits a lot of people to emphasise oil revenues - though it’s clearly a factor. Certainly takes the spotlight off fuckwit Saudi Whabbists and Iran: one the USA’s great friend and partner in the region, the other a partner in a new non-nuclear deal. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/10 "2015-11-19T12:37:53Z")
But even though ISIS are largely self funded, they still are supposed to be receiving money from Saudis (though it may be a lesser portion of total funds), how are we to get the Saudi government to stop all money coming from their Kingdom ? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/11 "2015-11-19T12:41:38Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > But even though ISIS are largely self funded, they still are supposed to be receiving money from Saudis (though it may be a lesser portion of total funds), how are we to get the Saudi government to stop all money coming from their Kingdom ? Get the world to go back to horse and carts and move Mecca and Medina somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/12 "2015-11-19T12:49:45Z")
Tricky proposition… ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/13 "2015-11-19T12:55:09Z")
The West can’t even get them to allow women to drive, never mind stop randomly chopping off house cleaners arms. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/14 "2015-11-19T13:16:31Z")
When you put it like that… ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/15 "2015-11-19T13:21:01Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > But even though ISIS are largely self funded, they still are supposed to be receiving money from Saudis (though it may be a lesser portion of total funds), how are we to get the Saudi government to stop all money coming from their Kingdom ? How do you get the Americans to stop buying trafficked drugs from other countries? How do you make the Mafia go away? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/16 "2015-11-19T13:34:09Z")
Maybe by not going ahead with things like this until we see some action ? > [@](#): > > Al Arabiya News Wednesday, 24 June 2015 Saudi Arabia and France agreed Wednesday to sign $12 billion of deals, Saudi Foreign Minister Adel Al-Jubair said during a landmark visit by Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to Paris. But the UK gov tried something like that and… > [@](#): > > [Saudi Arabia’s rulers threatened](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/15/bae.armstrade)to make it easier for terrorists to attack London unless corruption investigations into their arms deals were halted, according to court documents revealed yesterday. > Previously secret files describe how investigators were told they faced “another 7/7” and the loss of “British lives on British streets” if they pressed on with their inquiries and the Saudis carried out their threat to cut off intelligence. ?? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/17 "2015-11-19T13:53:47Z")
Invest in the nuclear energy and in the renewable energies. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/18 "2015-11-19T14:16:41Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > But the UK gov tried something like that and… > > ?? Just trying to be helpful here – you’ve raised several statements from Prince Bandar in other threads as well. You should know that he is widely regarded as a nutcase and has been stripped of all his positions over the last year and a half. The point that he had many influential positions over the years is accurate, but it would help the context of his remarks to think of him as being the Dan Quayle of Saudi Arabia. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/19 "2015-11-19T14:43:08Z")
I don’t know about widely regarded, it’s the first I’ve heard of it. lemme see… > [@](#): > > “[Bandar’s approach was very black and white](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/16/prince-bandar-saudi-intelligence-syria),” said one well placed observer. “And he seems to have over-promised to the king in terms of confidently predicting Assad’s departure.” > He was often abroad, reportedly being treated for health problems, or “unavailable” at home due to illness. He is also known to suffer badly from depression. Several months ago he failed to turn up for an urgently-scheduled meeting on Syria with David Cameron at Chequers. Sounds a bit like it could be bipolar ? Or should it be seen as excuse making by a regime that wants to change tack ? > [@](#): > > According to sources in Riyadh, Bandar faced strong opposition from the powerful interior minister (and possible future king), Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, who led the crackdown on al-Qaida following a wave of attacks between 2003 and 2006. Bin Nayef became increasingly concerned about battle-hardened young Saudis returning home radicalised after fighting in Syria. Bandar’s removal probably reflects that policy divergence, western diplomats and Saudis say. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/20 "2015-11-19T14:44:24Z")
Wasn’t Quayle the guy with the potato, or was that another one ? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971.md?page=2)