# Who sponsors ISIS, who started ISIS ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2015, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971 "2015-11-19T11:19:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/21 "2015-11-19T14:46:54Z")
I’m starting to think that the OP may have been rhetorical question. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/22 "2015-11-19T15:03:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m starting to think that the OP may have been rhetorical question. More info [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=774789) ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/23 "2015-11-19T15:03:54Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Just trying to be helpful here – you’ve raised several statements from Prince Bandar in other threads as well. You should know that he is widely regarded as a nutcase and has been stripped of all his positions over the last year and a half. > > The point that he had many influential positions over the years is accurate, but it would help the context of his remarks to think of him as being the Dan Quayle of Saudi Arabia. Is Bandar back ? Says [here -](http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/13495) > [@](#): > > Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the godfather behind the creation of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), now called the “Islamic State” or “Islamic Caliphate,” has returned to an influential position advising King Abdullah after being sacked as Saudi intelligence chief last April. Bandar’s new title is “adviser to the King and his special envoy.”… CIA Director John O. Brennan, a Saudophile and former CIA station chief in Riyadh, is, according to our sources, behind the restoration of Bandar to a key position in the Saudi government. What does that mean ? Is he reinstated ? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/24 "2015-11-19T15:11:44Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Is Bandar back ? > > Says [here -](http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/13495) > What does that mean ? Is he reinstated ? Look at the date on the article, please. The office referenced in that article was abolished 11 months ago. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/25 "2015-11-19T15:15:46Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Is Bandar back ? > > Says [here -](http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/13495) > What does that mean ? Is he reinstated ? No. The position was abolished in 2015. Your article there is over a year old. From his [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan) page (which is where you should have started, though I can see why you’d Google to get the exact answer you wanted): > [@](#): > > Removed as head of Intelligence Service > > On 15 April 2014 Prince Bandar bin Sultan was removed from his position “at his own request” according to the announcement in the Saudi state media.[60][61] he remained as Secretary General of the National Security Council until it was abolished in January 2015. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/26 "2015-11-19T15:16:48Z")
The growth of ISIS is a direct result of the Shia leadership in Iraq. When the US pulled out of that country al Qaeda was a beaten force, with only a few hardened fighters left. Maliki, the Shia PM, was a paranioac, seeing Sunni conspiracies under every bush. When Maliki first made a state visit to Obama he told the President that the bodyguards of his Sunni VP were plotting against him (total BS). Obama told him that it was a purely internal affair, the business of Iraq not the US. Maliki thoought he’d been given the green light by the US to deal with the Sunni as he thought fit (not what Obama meant at all). Over the next few years Maliki idiotically started coming down hard on the Sunni, arresting, imprisoning and murdering them in their thousands. Predictably the Sunni turned to anyone who would protect them, hence the meteoric rise of ISIS, enormously aided by the burgeoning civil war in Syria, which also pitted the Shia government there against the Sunni. We owe this whole shitstorm to Maliki and his oppression of the Sunni minority in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/27 "2015-11-19T15:38:49Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > What does that mean ? Is he reinstated ? He’s not reinstated in his old job where the intelligence services work for him. Adviser and special envoy sounds like his span of control is only as big as the king gives him and he’s close enough to watch carefully. That’s probably a smart move compared to just leaving someone potentially influential underfoot with a lot of free time and less supervision (keep … your enemies closer). It certainly doesn’t sound like he’s necessarily reinstated to a position of equal influence and responsibility. We’d need to see important envoy tasks assigned to him to make the case that he’s been given any kind of real responsibility or trust. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/28 "2015-11-19T15:56:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m starting to think that the OP may have been rhetorical question. rhetorical is one word. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/29 "2015-11-19T18:51:08Z")
Would this have been Bandar too, if it says what Graham says it says ? Or is it all meh. [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/world/middleeast/florida-ex-senator-pursues-claims-of-saudi-ties-to-sept-11-attacks.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/world/middleeast/florida-ex-senator-pursues-claims-of-saudi-ties-to-sept-11-attacks.html) > [@](#): > > In sworn statements in the two cases, Mr. Graham has said there was evidence of support from the Saudi government for the terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/30 "2015-11-19T20:42:29Z")
Vox has a pretty decent [article](http://www.vox.com/2015/11/19/9760284/isis-history) that addresses the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/31 "2015-11-19T22:53:45Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Maliki, the Shia PM, was a paranioac, seeing Sunni conspiracies under every bush. Sunni extremists blew up the al-Askari mosque in February of 2006, kicking off the Sunni-Shia civil war several months before Maliki became MP (in May of that year). His heavy-handedness certainly didn’t help though, I’ll give you that. > [@aldiboronti](#): > > Over the next few years Maliki idiotically started coming down hard on the Sunni, arresting, imprisoning and murdering them in their thousands. Predictably the Sunni turned to anyone who would protect them, hence the meteoric rise of ISIS, enormously aided by the burgeoning civil war in Syria, which also pitted the Shia government there against the Sunni. Idiotically - or cynically. Perhaps Maliki and the Shi’ite militias cynically decided that alienating the Sunni minority was simply “worth it,” in order to gain the ultimate price: Baghdad, which went from perhaps 50% Shi’ite in 2003 to ca. 80% Shi’ite in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/32 "2015-11-19T23:22:32Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Vox has a pretty decent [article](http://www.vox.com/2015/11/19/9760284/isis-history) that addresses the OP. Ah now, that mentions the story about the Syrians releasing prisoners to radicalise the opposition and give themselves a reason to crack down - false flag type thing. I don’t know what to make of that. I’ve read accounts by people saying they are ex Syrian intelligence who say it’s true, and other people just say it’s anti Assad conspiracy. I don’t know, though I do think that those who say that the Syrian government can play such games should also allow that the Western governments are also capable of such deviousness. Did the Syrian gov really do this ? It seems to have got a bit out of hand if they did. [that’s British understatement, just to be clear] But going with a theme – > [@](#): > > In 2012, money flew into Syria from the Gulf Arab states — places like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar. The key investments in ISIS didn’t come directly from those countries’ governments, but rather from [private individuals](http://www.brookings.edu/%7E/media/research/files/papers/2013/12/06-private-gulf-financing-syria-extremist-rebels-sectarian-conflict-dickinson/private-gulf-financing-syria-extremist-rebels-sectarian-conflict-dickinson.pdf)living there who wanted to see the Assad regime fall — and perhaps to promote extremism itself. > “These rich Arabs are like what ‘angel investors’ are to tech start-ups, except they are interested in starting up groups who want to stir up hatred,” former US Navy Admiral and NATO Supreme Commander James Stavridis told [NBC](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/whos-funding-isis-wealthy-gulf-angel-investors-officials-say-n208006) last June. “Groups like al-Nusra and ISIS are better investments for them [than moderates].” > Though these donors have since faded in importance, they were invaluable at the time. I didn’t know about Stavridis thanks. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971/33 "2015-11-19T23:44:14Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Sunni extremists blew up the al-Askari mosque in February of 2006, kicking off the Sunni-Shia civil war several months before Maliki became MP (in May of that year). > > His heavy-handedness certainly didn’t help though, I’ll give you that. > > Idiotically - or cynically. > > Perhaps Maliki and the Shi’ite militias cynically decided that alienating the Sunni minority was simply “worth it,” in order to gain the ultimate price: Baghdad, which went from perhaps 50% Shi’ite in 2003 to ca. 80% Shi’ite in 2008. I take your point but one might ask them what does it profit a man to gain Baghdad if he loses half of Iraq. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-sponsors-isis-who-started-isis/737971.md?page=1)