# Who started religion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 11, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431 "2010-09-11T20:55:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/21 "2010-09-12T00:13:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > > [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > > > Didn’t Neaderthals have a ritual, involving a clay statue of a cave bear, that they would stab with spears? > > > > Would that count? > > Is that a joke, or a reference to _Clan of the Cave Bear_? > > I’m not getting what the question is that the OP is asking. If you go by the Bibilican account, Abraham started Judaism. If you want a historical answer, \*\*Diogenes \*\*has covered it pretty well. The analogy to language is a good one, but I think we need to differentiate between spiritualism or belief in supernatural things and organized religion. Organized religions played an important role in the development of civilizations, and were useful to the hierarchy of the state. Neither. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/22 "2010-09-12T00:16:51Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > > [@John\_Mace](#): > > > > Is that a joke, or a reference to _Clan of the Cave Bear_? > > > > I’m not getting what the question is that the OP is asking. If you go by the Bibilican account, Abraham started Judaism. If you want a historical answer, \*\*Diogenes \*\*has covered it pretty well. The analogy to language is a good one, but I think we need to differentiate between spiritualism or belief in supernatural things and organized religion. Organized religions played an important role in the development of civilizations, and were useful to the hierarchy of the state. > > Neither. OK. Since you phrased that as a question, the answer is no. Although we can’t rule out that they may have done that, there is no evidence they did. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/23 "2010-09-12T00:55:35Z")
> [@Peanuthead](#): > > I know it sounds like an odd question but I got to thinking about it after talking to a friend a while ago. During our conversation she said, “Adam and Eve were Jewish.” For some reason that just struck me as hilarious. How could they be “Jewish” if they were the only people on the planet? There was just them and god, right? So there was really no such thing as “religion” was there? Something else had to come along (besides a lot more people, but that’s a topic for another thread) for a difference to occur. Was there another god who created other people? Who were these people and what’s their story? And, just to complicate things further, how and why did so many other “religions” come about? A & E were not alone. but religion, having absolutely nothing to do with God , was invented by demon through man as a form of control of man, and a way of delaying man from coming home to God. A & E were not Jewish as they have not received the law except be fruitful and multiple, plus the curses on A& E from violating it. The Jews were bound by the Law that God mediated on our behalf that brings death but allows salvation. Other religions came about because the truth was scattered among many groups, all having pieces of the puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/24 "2010-09-12T01:53:29Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > A & E were not alone. but religion, having absolutely nothing to do with God , was invented by demon through man as a form of control of man, and a way of delaying man from coming home to God. > > A & E were not Jewish as they have not received the law except be fruitful and multiple, plus the curses on A& E from violating it. The Jews were bound by the Law that God mediated on our behalf that brings death but allows salvation. > > Other religions came about because the truth was scattered among many groups, all having pieces of the puzzle. While that is certainly one interpretation of the Bible, let’s be clear that it is factually incorrect wrt to what actually happened in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/25 "2010-09-12T10:27:43Z")
I’m not supposed to say but … it was me. Please don’t tell anyone. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/26 "2010-09-12T10:39:03Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > > [@Peanuthead](#): > > > > I know it sounds like an odd question but I got to thinking about it after talking to a friend a while ago. During our conversation she said, “Adam and Eve were Jewish.” For some reason that just struck me as hilarious. How could they be “Jewish” if they were the only people on the planet? There was just them and god, right? So there was really no such thing as “religion” was there? Something else had to come along (besides a lot more people, but that’s a topic for another thread) for a difference to occur. Was there another god who created other people? Who were these people and what’s their story? And, just to complicate things further, how and why did so many other “religions” come about? > > A & E were not alone. but religion, having absolutely nothing to do with God , was invented by demon through man as a form of control of man, and a way of delaying man from coming home to God. > > A & E were not Jewish as they have not received the law except be fruitful and multiple, plus the curses on A& E from violating it. The Jews were bound by the Law that God mediated on our behalf that brings death but allows salvation. > > Other religions came about because the truth was scattered among many groups, all having pieces of the puzzle. Gosh, your God is less powerful than the Demon he created !! That is how your reply comes to my mind. I do wonder why you are so infactuated with demons,if God didn’t want the demons to cause evil He could have destroyed them,instead of allowing them to destroy His children!!! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/27 "2010-09-12T10:41:20Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > > [@Peanuthead](#): > > > > I know it sounds like an odd question but I got to thinking about it after talking to a friend a while ago. During our conversation she said, “Adam and Eve were Jewish.” For some reason that just struck me as hilarious. How could they be “Jewish” if they were the only people on the planet? There was just them and god, right? So there was really no such thing as “religion” was there? Something else had to come along (besides a lot more people, but that’s a topic for another thread) for a difference to occur. Was there another god who created other people? Who were these people and what’s their story? And, just to complicate things further, how and why did so many other “religions” come about? > > A & E were not alone. but religion, having absolutely nothing to do with God , was invented by demon through man as a form of control of man, and a way of delaying man from coming home to God. > > A & E were not Jewish as they have not received the law except be fruitful and multiple, plus the curses on A& E from violating it. The Jews were bound by the Law that God mediated on our behalf that brings death but allows salvation. > > Other religions came about because the truth was scattered among many groups, all having pieces of the puzzle. Gosh, your God is less powerful than the Demon He created !! That is how your reply comes to my mind. I do wonder why you are so infactuated with demons,if God didn’t want the demons to cause evil He could have destroyed them,instead of allowing them to destroy His children!!! I realize there are people who call that free will, but a good father doesn’t allow his 3 year old to hold a loaded gun to his brother’s head!!! That is not free will that is being a BAD parent! ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/28 "2010-09-12T16:17:31Z")
> [@Peanuthead](#): > > During our conversation she said, “Adam and Eve were Jewish.” For some reason that just struck me as hilarious. You might ask her how she defines Jewish. To the question “Who, according to the Bible, were the first Jews?” one possible answer is Jacob (aka Israel) and his descendents, since they were the literal “children of Israel” and founders of the Twelve Tribes. Another possible answer is the Israelites of the desert years immediately following the Exodus, since that, according to the Bible/Torah, is when the Law was given to the people by God through Moses. > [@](#): > > There was just them and god, right? So there was really no such thing as “religion” was there? I have heard that many “primitive” societies had no word for “religion,” since they didn’t have a concept of religion as such, as a separate part of life. If you’re asking who first had a concept of “religion” as we now use the term, that’s an interesting question, but I don’t know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/29 "2010-09-12T16:45:56Z")
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool. --Voltaire ---
**Author:** ![bizerta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/30 "2010-09-14T13:10:14Z")
Religion is a by-product of evolution. The will to live is a product of evolution. The slim hope that there is something beyond the grave led followers to follow those who preached. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/31 "2010-09-14T13:38:29Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > There was just them and god, right? So there was really no such thing as “religion” was there? > > I have heard that many “primitive” societies had no word for “religion,” since they didn’t have a concept of religion as such, as a separate part of life. If you’re asking who first had a concept of “religion” as we now use the term, that’s an interesting question, but I don’t know the answer. I guess the concept of “hey, different people have different sets of beliefs, who would’a thunk!” must have come about more or less at the same time somewhat-long-distance commerce was invented. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/32 "2010-09-14T13:55:59Z")
[This guy.](http://movieimage2.tripod.com/2001/2001-05.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/33 "2010-09-14T14:10:20Z")
Hmm, disagree with just about everything written so far in this thread. Adam and eve were religious by most definitions of the word, although whether they were Jewish is a tough call because god hadn’t laid down the details required for them to live by what we’d call jewish. If it sounds weird to call adam and eve religious, it’s cos we’re used to religious being full of arbitrary rules and having no empirical evidence. But there’s no reason that they have to be like that. But if they were jewish, that means we’re all jewish, right? I wonder if I can apply for Israeli citizenship on that basis: that I’m decended from adam and eve 🙂 Secondly, _of course_ the sacrifices and burial practices of primitive cultures _are_ religions too. To call them “just beliefs” is to say they aren’t true scotsmen. Finally, I don’t think that the question of this thread really makes sense as religion does seem natural for humans, and is no more invented than sneezing. In my view it’s natural because humans anthropomorphize frequently. Our brains are wired up to cope with a world where other sentient beings are the most important part of our environment. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/34 "2010-09-14T15:22:32Z")
Jewish actually means from the tribe of Judah ben Israel, who didn’t show up until chapter 29. Anyone before that by definition can’t be Jewish. From Abraham onward, you can call them Hebrew, but Jewish didn’t start until Judah (3 generations later). The Qur’ān, quite logically, says “Abraham was neither Jewish nor Christian.” Neither of those things had been invented yet. The point is that the worship of the one God (exemplified by Abraham) is independent from any particular religious affiliations. **Tapioca Dextrin** —good call on Göbekli Tepe. Current thinking is that Göbekli Tepe marks the cultural transition from hunter-gatherer to agriculture as well as the associated development from localized, individual shamanism to centralized institutional religion. Basically, the sort of centralized institutions with temples and priests that are what we usually think of as “religion.” The timespan of Göbekli Tepe covers pretty much the Mesolithic period, the transition from Paleolithic to Neolithic. The earliest developments of Göbekli Tepe show evidence of a kind of Paleolithic shamanism based around animal totems, and suggests the development of the concept of deities (and presumably priesthood) as the site became a central institution to focus the ritual activities of the whole surrounding country. This went hand in hand with the rise of agriculture and the centralization of production and distribution that results from agriculture developing into a larger-scale regional economy. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/35 "2010-09-14T15:28:53Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > From Abraham onward, you can call them Hebrew, but Jewish didn’t start until Judah (3 generations later). More accurately, 4 generations later, because Jewish refers to the tribe of Judah, rather than Judah himself. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/36 "2010-09-14T15:51:56Z")
Peanuthead: > [@](#): > > I know it sounds like an odd question but I got to thinking about it after talking to a friend a while ago. During our conversation she said, “Adam and Eve were Jewish.” For some reason that just struck me as hilarious. How could they be “Jewish” if they were the only people on the planet? There was just them and god, right? So there was really no such thing as “religion” was there? There was such a thing as worship and sacrifice, and (from the Biblical perspective) the diety they worshipped and sacrificed to is the one the Jews have worshipped and sacrificed (or prayed) to throughout history (again, speaking biblically - I know that in the sense of secular history this is disputed). However, the worship they did was not necessarily what Jews do, as the covenant between G-d and the Israelites, as laid out in the laws of the Torah had not yet been revealed to man. > [@](#): > > Something else had to come along (besides a lot more people, but that’s a topic for another thread) for a difference to occur. Was there another god who created other people? Who were these people and what’s their story? And, just to complicate things further, how and why did so many other “religions” come about? According to the traditional Jewish interpretations (Maimonides probably sums it up best), a few generations after Adam, people began to feel G-d was too holy and removed to be worshipped directly and instead directed their worship at G-d’s “messengers” - the sun, moon, stars, animals, etc., thinking that this is a more appropriate way to revere G-d. Eventually, these people lost sight of the fact that this was meant as a path to G-d and worship of these objects or personifications thereof became an end unto itself. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/37 "2010-09-14T15:58:08Z")
Johanna: > [@](#): > > More accurately, 4 generations later, because Jewish refers to the tribe of Judah, rather than Judah himself. Even more accurately, about another 10 generations or so after that, as the word “Jewish” derives, ultimately, from the KINGDOM of Judah (which also included the tribe of Benjamin). Before the Northern Kingdom-Southern Kingdom split, the term for devotees of the diety currently worshipped by Jews would have been “Israelites.” Even after the split, the religion probably would have continued to be called that (despite the rampant idol-worship in the Kingdom of Israel) until the exile of the Northern Kingdom by the Assyrians, leaving the Kingdom of Judah as the only nation identified with this particular mode of worship. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/38 "2010-09-14T15:59:09Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool. --Voltaire I thought it was older than that, and it’s most unkind to call Voltaire a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/39 "2010-09-14T16:10:23Z")
> [@bizerta](#): > > The slim hope that there is something beyond the grave led followers to follow those who preached. I’m not sure that fear of death was necessarily what started religion. There was plenty to fear already. AFAIK, early Judaism didn’t have much of a concept of an afterlife; they initially were pretty convinced that their god was going to take care of and judge them _in this life_. Russell claims that the concept of an afterlife with rewards and punishments became popular when the Jews got overpowered by various non-Jewish groups and it became clear that just keeping to the Lord and the Laws wasn’t enough to make this life good. The early Greeks too were not all convinced of an afterlife either. Their gods were also seen as active in the here and now. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431/40 "2010-09-14T16:28:13Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Sticking to the literal biblical account: there was no “religion” per se, just a few people who have occasional direct contact with God (Adam and Eve, Cain, Enoch, and Noah.) After Noah, as the number of people began to multiply after the Flood, the story of the Tower of Babel indicates that different languages (and hence different cultures) appeared, presumably including religions. In the ten generations from Noah to Abraham, lots of different religions sprang up. Abraham would be the first “Jew” although that term doesn’t arise until many (many!) generations later. Well Abraham was the father of many nations according to the Biblical account, the distinct progenitor of the Hebrews being his grandson Jacob. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-started-religion/553431.md?page=1)