# Who still supports extraordinary rendition? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329 "2009-10-19T14:27:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/1 "2009-10-19T14:27:12Z")
In the cover story in the [October Atlantic](http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200910/bush-torture), an ostensibly conservative commentator takes the position that the extraordinary rendition measures taken over recent years were unquestionably torture and harmed the US’s position in the world. As a long-time liberal pacifist, that position was no news to me. But it sorta impressed me coming from someone who claimed to so strongly support so much else done by the prior administration - including its military actions other than torture. I know Cheney still goes on about how valuable these actions were, and how ceasing them endangers us. But I was wondering whether any posters still thinks extraordinary rendition was/remains acceptable under the circumstances. Is this still debated by anyone other than Cheney? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/2 "2009-10-19T14:29:50Z")
Hey Dinsdale, where’s Dough? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/3 "2009-10-19T16:03:53Z")
I’m ok with extraordinary rendition in some cases, like if there’s some sort of notorious criminal who we can’t get through legal rendition, like the Eichmann situation. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/4 "2009-10-19T16:11:55Z")
Eichmann was given a fair trial. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/5 "2009-10-19T16:17:55Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I’m ok with extraordinary rendition in some cases, like if there’s some sort of notorious criminal who we can’t get through legal rendition, like the Eichmann situation. I apologize if I was not perfectly clear, but my OP intended referred to US’s recent “enhanced interrogation” policies, rather than the manner in which individuals might be apprehended and transferred. Stress positions, sleep deprivation, cold and heat, use of dogs, waterboarding - that sort of activity. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/6 "2009-10-19T16:30:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Eichmann was given a fair trial. Right. After he was extraordinarily rendered. I say, use legal means to get the bad guy in custody if you can, and kidnap him if you can’t, then take him back home and try him. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > I apologize if I was not perfectly clear, but my OP intended referred to US’s recent “enhanced interrogation” policies, rather than the manner in which individuals might be apprehended and transferred. Stress positions, sleep deprivation, cold and heat, use of dogs, waterboarding - that sort of activity. So, you’re not talking about rendition at all…you’re talking about torture. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/7 "2009-10-19T16:37:57Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > So, you’re not talking about rendition at all…you’re talking about torture. Well, I think so, as did the author of the article. But I was trying to use what I understood was the terminology used over the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/8 "2009-10-19T16:42:31Z")
1. Extraordinary rendition 2. Torture by proxy 3. Torture Which one(s) are we discussing? IMHO, the USA was using extraordinary rendition to enable torture by proxy because torture was not permitted in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/9 "2009-10-19T17:08:28Z")
The article is discussing torture by Americans, not extraordinary rendition. Speaking directly to Bush, the author says: > [@](#): > > The point of this letter, Mr. President, is to beg you to finally take responsibility for this stain on American honor and this burden on a war we must win As if. Bush has never taken responsibility for anything in his life. The article is trying to teach a pig to sing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/10 "2009-10-19T17:23:56Z")
Just finished the article. I found it very compelling and well written. I would wish that someone would read this to Bush over and over and over again, just to see if something would sink in. **Dinsdale** , you may want to get the title of the OP changed, since extraordinary rendition is not really the point of Sullivan’s article. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/11 "2009-10-19T18:06:34Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > 1. Extraordinary rendition > 2. Torture by proxy > 3. Torture > > Which one(s) are we discussing? > > IMHO, the USA was using extraordinary rendition to enable torture by proxy because torture was not permitted in the USA. #1 [remains](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/us/politics/25rendition.html?_r=2) US policy, at least in theory, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/12 "2009-10-19T18:33:15Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **Dinsdale** , you may want to get the title of the OP changed, since extraordinary rendition is not really the point of Sullivan’s article. I asked the mods to close the threads, as I did not intend to cause such confusion. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/13 "2009-10-19T19:13:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Eichmann was given a fair trial. After his kidnapping. There was also the small matter of jurisdiction, a question that the world agreed to let alone. But justice was served. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/14 "2009-10-19T19:19:07Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I asked the mods to close the threads, as I did not intend to cause such confusion. Please start a new one! This article deserves to be read. I’d suggest the debate could focus around whether or not an personal apology from Bush regarding his decisions regarding torture would be the right thing to do for the country. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-still-supports-extraordinary-rendition/514329/15 "2009-10-20T06:17:44Z")
Closed at the request of the OP.