# Who thought this dress ("African" black women) modeled by a blonde made sense? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 12, 2020, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603 "2020-04-12T03:57:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![drivekiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@drivekiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drivekiller)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/41 "2020-04-15T06:19:19Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Did it not occur to the people putting the advertisement together that a white lady wearing a dress showing somebody’s idea of ethnic African women might be a little … awkward … in this day and age? Apparently not. > Yeesh. I’m a white male. Many years ago (70s), I owned a dashiki. I was in my late teens, early twenties. I liked it. I also had at various times, a shirt that purported to be a traditional Native American garment, what can only be described as a dress [wore it to church!!!], army surplus blazers, a panama hat, all kinda boots. Colors and patterns I probably wouldn’t consider wearing today – Black is the new black – ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/42 "2020-04-15T06:29:08Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > I hold your oath of righteous indignation fulfilled. For the record: I’m not righteously indignant, merely bemused. I have little to no tolerance for howls of “cultural appropriation!! Bad!” At the same time, I’m not unaware of the zeitgeist, and I see no need to deliberately inflame when there is no good reason to do so. I’m a WASP American, and I’ve lived basically all of my adult life in the Asia-Pacific, Middle East, and Africa. My collection of art and tchotchkes from developing countries is extensive, to say the least. I’m good with cultural appreciation. That doesn’t mean turning a blind eye to cultural insensitivity. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/43 "2020-04-15T16:16:12Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > The dress reminds me of a lot of Afrocentric art I’ve seen, [like this](https://www.amazon.com/Vipsung-American-Afrocentric-Carrying-BrownShower/dp/B073XL1WCH?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_13). > > Most American Afrocentric art isn’t to my taste. I find a lot of it to be kitschy. But there is a market for it, and if you can put it on a shower curtain, then why not a dress? It’s not what you put on stuff, [it’s what you put in stuff](https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/out-of-africa/n10451). ---
**Author:** ![ArtBeforeScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ArtBeforeScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArtBeforeScience)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/44 "2020-04-15T16:29:00Z")
I wouldn’t get all spun out over this particular dress. There are more serious things going on than some lady taking an apparent selfie inside her own house. Who “owns” culture, exactly? Who determines who else is entitled to wear this fabric? I’ve been in African dance classes, taught by native-born Africans who were master dancers from national West African ballet companies, and had other class participants take offense, loudly and publicly, right in front of the teacher, because there were “europeans” in the class. I just stuck to learning the steps which were so complicated it took all my effort not to trip over my own feet. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/45 "2020-04-15T18:31:52Z")
How _dare_ non-Euros wear European black-suit-and-tie ensembles! Cultural theft! Responding to criticism of Anglo women with a burrito wagon in Portland OR, [Ask A Mexican](http://www.ocweekly.com/restaurants/let-white-people-appropriate-mexican-food-mexicans-do-it-to-ourselves-all-the-time-8133678) said, > [@](#): > > What these culture warriors who proclaim to defend Mexicans don’t realize is that we’re talking about the food industry, one of the most rapacious businesses ever created. It’s the human condition at its most Darwinian, where everyone rips everyone off. The only limit to an entrepreneur’s chicanery isn’t resources, race or class status, but how fast can you rip someone off, how smart you can be to spot trends years before anyone else, and how much money you can make before you have to rip off another idea again. > > And no one rips off food like Mexicans. > > The Mexican restaurant world is a delicious defense of cultural appropriation—that’s what the culinary manifestation of _mestizaje_ is, ain’t it? The Spaniards didn’t know how to make corn tortillas in the North, so they decided to make them from flour. Mexicans didn’t care much for Spanish dessert breads, so we ripped off most pan dulces from the French (not to mention waltzes and mariachi). We didn’t care much for wine, so we embraced the beers that German, Czech and Polish immigrants brought to Mexico. And what is al pastor if not Mexicans taking shawarma from the Lebanese, adding pork and making it something as quintessentially Mexican as a corrupt PRI? I can claim some Native American ancestry but my dressing traditionally would be ludicrous, not thieving. Would I be culturally appropriating or just a liar to claim I made Navajo silver-and-turquoise jewelry… which is totally nontraditional? [(cite)](https://www.collectorsweekly.com/fine-jewelry/native-american) Put down that fried-bread taco, _Kemosabe_. It ain’t for your kind. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/46 "2020-04-16T02:00:51Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Bullshit. Short - very short - skirts are the traditional wear in lots of Southern African groups. These will be NSFW because bare breasts are also the traditional norm, but feel free to google image search for “zulu reed dance”, “swazi reed dance”, “himba traditional women’s clothes”. Those \*are \*from the more conservative areas, BTW. Bullshit. Of your examples, three are artistic performance costumes, and the fourth is a tiny tribe with virtually no exposure to mainstream culture. To make sure my memory wasn’t being selective, before posting I looked at Youtube street/market views of several African cities. Not a knee in sight – all ladies in long skirts. I guess the reed dancers were someplace else ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/47 "2020-04-16T07:35:20Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > To make sure my memory wasn’t being selective, before posting I looked at Youtube street/market views of several African cities. Not a knee in sight – all ladies in long skirts. I guess the reed dancers were someplace else I suspect you overgeneralize. Africa is a rather large continent with rather a large variety of peoples and cultures. I could find Youtube street/market views of several N. American cities with zero adult female knees visible. Proves nothing. Back to cultural appropriation. How _dare_ Africans wear tee-shirts and Levis!?! ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/48 "2020-04-16T10:22:17Z")
In general, women traveling in Africa are advised to keep their legs covered, by many travel publications,including USA Today: “Wear pants or long skirts when traveling in Africa. Select pants made from comfortable, breathable materials such as denim or khaki. Avoid short skirts and shorts, which leave your legs vulnerable to mosquitoes and are considered immodest on women. Men should also avoid wearing shorts, as they are traditionally only worn by schoolchildren in many African nations.” A miniskirt ban in Uganda is being disputed, but a skirt above the knees will attract plenty of unwanted attention. Similar incidents in Johannesburg of short-skirted women being attacked by self-styled fashion police. If you’re smart, you just don’t offend modesty. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/49 "2020-04-16T10:48:47Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Bullshit. Of your examples, three are artistic performance costumes No, those are the[traditional clothes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_people#Clothing) of unmarried young women in those tribes. The reed dance is not just an artistic performance, it’s an entire cultural event. But hey, thanks so much for explaining my own country’s cultures to me, white foreigner… > [@](#): > > , and the fourth is a tiny tribe with virtually no exposure to mainstream culture. I only posted 3 examples. And the Himba, which is who I assume you’re referring to, have [\*plenty \*of cultural exposure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himba_people#Societal_participation). They’re not some isolated folk. They are also a very popular tribe with Westerners, being considered quite photogenic, so they get a lot of exposure to other cultures. Plus 50 000 is not “tiny”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/50 "2020-04-16T10:58:56Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > In general, women traveling in Africa are advised to keep their legs covered, by many travel publications,including USA Today: “Wear pants or long skirts when traveling in Africa. Select pants made from comfortable, breathable materials such as denim or khaki. Avoid short skirts and shorts, which leave your legs vulnerable to mosquitoes and are considered immodest on women. Men should also avoid wearing shorts, as they are traditionally only worn by schoolchildren in many African nations.” Of course, rules\* for foreigners\* for _particular countries_ means all of Africa follows those rules, including all the natives :rolleyes: You mention the Jo’burg miniskirt attacks. Which were really sexual assaults, not traditional cultural outrage even though couched in those terms. And the response was [this](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-17078304). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/51 "2020-04-17T03:05:34Z")
Where did you get the photo? Obviously not any major fashion or retail site. Almost all the “companies” selling cheap fashion via Facebook are total scams that don’t send the item at all. They use whatever photos they can find. One of my good friends was used as a photo for a funeral insurance scam. She’d posted it on instagram, semi-locked - and she did look really shocked, it was a great expression. One of her friends must have shared it and made it public. She popped up everywhere for a while, but she got no payments and had no idea she was selling funeral insurance. Her image was being used, legally, by fraudsters. This looks like some woman took a selfie wearing a dress. Don’t know where she got it from, but it definitely doesn’t look like she was taking this photo as a professional publicity shot. It looks like the kind of photo I used to take when my friends and I had a “Friday frocks” thing going, where we would wear nice clothes even if we were just going out to walk the dog, because it’s fun to wear nice clothes sometimes. There are really good odds that the headless woman in the ad campaign has nothing to do with the company using her image at all. The “45% off” bit makes it certain that this is a scam site, and they will be gouging people, and the African imagery, TBH, is not the worst part of that. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/52 "2020-04-17T03:52:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Of course, rules\* for foreigners\* for _particular countries_ means all of Africa follows those rules, including all the natives :rolleyes: Of course,no social rule applies everywhere. rolleyes But if you are not aware of the rules, it is wise to err on the side of conservative. And those of us discussing the OP most empathically do not know what part of Africa the wearer is likely to be judge. I haven=t been in RSA post-Apartheid, but a wild guess would be that some customs are still leftovers from when Africans did not make them. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/53 "2020-04-17T05:48:45Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > To make sure my memory wasn’t being selective, before posting I looked at Youtube street/market views of several African cities. Not a knee in sight – all ladies in long skirts. I guess the reed dancers were someplace else As I said above, Africa is _ **huge** _ and _ **varied** _. You can’t make many sweeping generalization about it. The Muslim strictures of dress on women in Somalia, for example, don’t apply in most of Nigeria. You will see women’s knees on the the street of Lagos–maybe not as much as in the States, but you will see it. Even within one country, the cultural norms vary a lot between urban and rural areas, among tribes, etc. You can’t make such broad statements about the U.S., either, except for maybe something like extreme, like: “You won’t see people walking around naked in the U.S. Not a butt in sight.” ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/54 "2020-04-17T06:28:00Z")
for some reason, this discussion reminds me of an unusual incident that happened 20 or so years ago in Palmdale (about 15 minutes from here) ca the main street was backed up for 20 minutes by an "a blondish braided caucasian woman walking down the street wearing nothing but a pair of high top shoes and sunglasses Well when the LA county sheriffs department noticed the traffic stall and stopped the woman they had to get an interpreter from the local college because spoke a local dialect of a language native to Africa and found out shed just moved here for a job and since it was about 110 she thought it was like her home where l you didn’t wear much if anything at all in the summer heat and was advised it wasn’t so over here what made the story even amusing was the writer was a bit shocked that there white African natives that weren’t English or South African ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/55 "2020-04-17T06:36:29Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > And those of us discussing the OP most empathically do not know what part of Africa the wearer is likely to be judge. …but still feel free to make sweeping statement about what is and isn’t worn _in all of Africa_. And then inexplicably double down when an actual African points out you’re wrong to make sweeping statements that are just another damned round of “[Africa is a country](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/08/confusing-country-continent-how-we-talk-about-africa/311621/)” ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/56 "2020-04-17T11:01:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …but still feel free to make sweeping statement about what is and isn’t worn _in all of Africa_. > > And then inexplicably double down when an actual African points out you’re wrong to make sweeping statements that are just another damned round of “[Africa is a country](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/08/confusing-country-continent-how-we-talk-about-africa/311621/)” OK, take your wife to a random place in Africa with just shorts and minislirts in her baggage. Like South Africans do when touring the continent. You’ll get along fine with the locals. If anyone tells you it’s not gonna be just like Dallas, they’re making sweeping generalizations. Even though Cape Town IS pretty much like Dallas. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/57 "2020-04-17T21:03:08Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > OK, take your wife to a random place in Africa with just shorts and minislirts in her baggage. I said nothing about “a random place in Africa”, I mentioned \*specific \*groups who are in \*specific \*places. Which was already enough to counter your “no woman in Africa…” bullshit. The key thing here is that your original statement was flat-out shown to be wrong, and \*for some reason \*you can’t just say “I was wrong, I over-generalized, I spoke bullshit.” Instead you _doubled down_ on it. And show your paternalistic ass with your “tiny tribe” nonsense. Well, I say “for some reason,” as though it’s a big mystery as to what you think gives you the privilege to do that, and think no-one will call your bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/58 "2020-04-17T21:55:08Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > for some reason, this discussion reminds me of an unusual incident that happened 20 or so years ago in Palmdale (about 15 minutes from here) ca the main street was backed up for 20 minutes by an "a blondish braided caucasian woman walking down the street wearing nothing but a pair of high top shoes and sunglasses > > Well when the LA county sheriffs department noticed the traffic stall and stopped the woman they had to get an interpreter from the local college because spoke a local dialect of a language native to Africa and found out shed just moved here for a job and since it was about 110 she thought it was like her home where l you didn’t wear much if anything at all in the summer heat and was advised it wasn’t so over here > > what made the story even amusing was the writer was a bit shocked that there white African natives that weren’t English or South African This story makes absolutely no sense. How would someone be recruited for a job in California if all they spoke was a local African dialect? And no, there aren’t Caucasians native to sub-Saharan Africa who aren’t descendants of European colonists (which may include French, Portuguese, and others). Albinos occur at a substantial frequency in some places, but these people would not be mistaken for Caucasians. While there are a few places in Africa where people might wear little clothing, no one who was acculturated enough to wear high top shoes and sunglasses would think of walking around wearing only that in any city, even one in Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/59 "2020-04-17T22:12:47Z")
Isn’t there a big, well-known nudist colony in Palmdale? Sounds like an honest mistake, for sure. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603/60 "2020-04-18T01:17:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I said nothing about “a random place in Africa”,. Of course you said nothing about a random place, because your argument applies only among a few thousand remote tribesmen, who are not going to be exposed to the lady wearing the dress in the OP. You should be addressing the point I made, if you want to keep throwing the word bullshit in every paragraph. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-thought-this-dress-african-black-women-modeled-by-a-blonde-made-sense/851603.md?page=4)