# Who wants to defend pirating content (movies/music/books/software/whatever)? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948 "2008-11-22T02:46:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/181 "2008-11-26T15:47:52Z")
Let’s look at this question from a different angle. If acquiring something is absurdly easy, costs next-to-nothing, and isn’t likely to have any negative repercussions, almost everyone will do it – only the super-moral will balk. This is in contrast to shoplifting a CD, setting up a storefront to duplicate DVDS and sell them, using a large printing press and binding machinery to reproduce books or reproducing a painting for sale. That’s what we have with digital content now, whether it be books, art, music or video. The morality and legality of acquiring these thru “unofficial” sources is a moot point, since it is absurdly easy, costs next-to-nothing, and isn’t likely to have any negative repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/182 "2008-11-26T15:55:25Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Any thieves out there who have deluded themselves into thinking there is nothing wrong with doing this? I’ll bet you smoke pot. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/183 "2008-11-26T16:13:10Z")
Jesus Christ, people. You’re using a product or service for free against the express wish of the owner of that product or service. It’s no different than breaking into a dry cleaners’ at night to use their equipment, or hotwiring a rental car and bringing it back a few days later. I used to use the free music download services all the time, back when they weren’t prosecuting- but I always knew what I was doing was wrong- and I deleted every fucking song in about 2003.\* “But they have a shitty business model!” is not an excuse. If you don’t like the way they do business, don’t use their product. I think Starbucks’ coffee is ridiculously overpriced, but I’m not about to mug a barista. \*I also used a cracked copy of Win 98 for a year or so, back before I knew what “cracking” was. A friend helped me build a computer, and installed the crack, and I didn’t know any better. As soon as I figured it out, I went out and bought a real copy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/184 "2008-11-26T16:17:52Z")
> [@muttrox](#): > > Ferinstance, as others have stated theft of music is not a zero-sum issue like stealing a car. As you’ve pointed out, it has other effects on the artists, distributor, competing bands and consumers, etc. It has pluses also though. I’ve bought albums by bands I would have never heard if not for pirating. That needs to be weighed. I’ve been to concerts of bands that I would never have heard of if not for priating. That needs to be weighed. There are a couple bands that have suffered because I might have purchased their albums if not for piracy, but overall I’ve given the industry more because of piracy. Every study seems to show that piracy does not cause the music industry any harm in the aggregate either. That isn’t how life works. Artists who wish to distribute their music freely are themselves free to do so, just as Subway is free to give out samples of their new soup flavor to promote it. You don’t get to decide to try a free sample when it isn’t free sample day, though. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/185 "2008-11-26T16:28:00Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > This is just silly. Nobody has a “right” to be paid at all for their work. Maybe their work isn’t worth paying for. This is absolutely the dumbest thing you’ve ever said, in this context. Now that I think about it, it might be the only dumb thing you’ve said, but still. What if I hit your car? Sure, I’m supposed to pay for it, but maybe I think it’s not worth paying for. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/186 "2008-11-26T16:52:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “But they have a shitty business model!” is not an excuse. If you don’t like the way they do business, don’t use their product. I think Starbucks’ coffee is ridiculously overpriced, but I’m not about to mug a barista. That analogy is still totally wrong. And partly why those arguing against piracy are wrong. They’ve conflated copyright violation with theft. Mugging a barista means you physically taking a tangible thing from them. Theft of a CD from a store means making off with a physical product which a store has bought and cannot sell for profit. Breaking into a drycleaners is B&E, not theft. Jacking a rental car is theft, of the GTA sort. Your analogies are so far around the bend as to be laughable. Acquiring a copy of an mp3 may be a copyright violation, but calling it theft it just hysterics, purposefully muddying the ethical waters, and plain old inaccurate. As for the record companies, when their ‘business model’ includes violating long-standing fair-use standards, fuck’em. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/187 "2008-11-26T16:57:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What if I hit your car? Sure, I’m supposed to pay for it, but maybe I think it’s not worth paying for. It’s hard to make real-world comparisons because with digital piracy, there is no loss incurred by the person you’re stealing from (aside from the nebulous ‘lost sale’, but you can’t assume that all pirates would buy the product if piracy wasn’t an option). If you hit my car, I’m out a car–there’s measurable damage done to my property. If you pirate a video game, the game company is out nothing. That’s not to say that piracy is morally right–at best I’d consider it neutral. But comparing it to real-world theft is stupid, because the two are fundamentally different. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/188 "2008-11-26T16:58:39Z")
> [@Jeff](#): > > That analogy is still totally wrong. And partly why those arguing against piracy are wrong. They’ve conflated copyright violation with theft. > > Mugging a barista means you physically taking a tangible thing from them. Theft of a CD from a store means making off with a physical product which a store has bought and cannot sell for profit. Breaking into a drycleaners is B&E, not theft. Jacking a rental car is theft, of the GTA sort. Your analogies are so far around the bend as to be laughable. > > Acquiring a copy of an mp3 may be a copyright violation, but calling it theft it just hysterics, purposefully muddying the ethical waters, and plain old inaccurate. > > As for the record companies, when their ‘business model’ includes violating long-standing fair-use standards, fuck’em. Since I didn’t actually call copyright infringement theft, you might want to actually read my analogies for comprehension before laughing. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/189 "2008-11-26T17:01:00Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > It’s hard to make real-world comparisons because with digital piracy, there is no loss incurred by the person you’re stealing from (aside from the nebulous ‘lost sale’, but you can’t assume that all pirates would buy the product if piracy wasn’t an option). If you hit my car, I’m out a car–there’s measurable damage done to my property. If you pirate a video game, the game company is out nothing. > > That’s not to say that piracy is morally right–at best I’d consider it neutral. But comparing it to real-world theft is stupid, because the two are fundamentally different. I think you meant to quote a different part of my post, but I’ll respond to just what you said- it doesn’t matter if the victim is hurt by, or even aware of a loss. If I was, say, a carpenter, and while repairing a wall I discovered a stack of cash that the owner didn’t know about, it would be wrong for me to keep it, right? ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/190 "2008-11-26T17:05:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think you meant to quote a different part of my post, but I’ll respond to just what you said- it doesn’t matter if the victim is hurt by, or even aware of a **loss**. See, here’s your problem in this argument–THERE IS NO LOSS. All of your examples involve actually _taking_ something from the other person, thus depriving them of it. Piracy is more like photocopying a library book–you now have a copy that you shouldn’t, but the library isn’t out a book. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/191 "2008-11-26T17:17:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Since I didn’t actually call copyright infringement theft, you might want to actually read my analogies for comprehension before laughing. Just a thought. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Jesus Christ, people. You’re using a product or service for free against the express wish of the owner of that product or service. **It’s no different than breaking into a dry cleaners’ at night to use their equipment, or hotwiring a rental car and bringing it back a few days later.** Fuck you right back. You’ve just conflated piracy with B&E and theft on top of conflating piracy with mugging a barista. Not my fault you’re totally unaware of what you’re writing. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/192 "2008-11-26T17:20:03Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I asked a question. The post was “I know it’s wrong, but I don’t give a fuck” not “I know it’s wrong, but I don’t want to give people who I think don’t deserve it, my money”. I want to know why what is right and wrong doesn’t matter to this person. Not a huge deal, at least in the case of pirating $20 movies, but I’m intrigued by the whole “I’m a rebel” mindset. I’m not a rebel, I just don’t care about right and wrong. what’s so hard to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/193 "2008-11-26T17:29:37Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > This is absolutely the dumbest thing you’ve ever said, in this context. Now that I think about it, it might be the only dumb thing you’ve said, but still. > > What if I hit your car? Sure, I’m supposed to pay for it, but maybe I think it’s not worth paying for. I hold this post up as a shining example of beautiful irony, which reflects upon itself like a fold-up mirror. > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > If I was, say, a carpenter, and while repairing a wall I discovered a stack of cash that the owner didn’t know about, it would be wrong for me to keep it, right? This is really starting to get silly. It’s amusing to watch you contort into impossible shapes, though, so I’ll ignore your “argument”–such as it is–if only for the pleasure of seeing what crazy thing you’re going to link to copyright infringement next. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/194 "2008-11-26T20:37:22Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > It appears Microsoft expects me to rebuy the game because the disk was damaged. What’s the point of that? Did you ever contact Microsoft to see if they would replace the damaged disk? I think piracy should be allowed in all cases where the person doing the pirating has a hook for a hand. You have a hook for a hand? Torrent all the music you want. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/195 "2008-11-26T21:16:24Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Did you ever contact Microsoft to see if they would replace the damaged disk? > > I think piracy should be allowed in all cases where the person doing the pirating has a hook for a hand. You have a hook for a hand? Torrent all the music you want. I only go as far as an eye-patch, a parrot and a cutlass. It’s not piratey enough for some, but it’s good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/196 "2008-11-26T22:33:18Z")
What a fun thread! I’m going to solicit opinions, but shit on everyone who does so! Oh well, here is mine. When I was ten or so I went out and bought a new awesome super cool video game for the six month old PC in the house. It cost me roughly a week’s worth of mowing lawns. Needless to say it wouldn’t install. I biked my ass back to the store and was greeted with a “tough shit, you opened it, no returns.” Like a fool, I didn’t learn my lesson. I bought software over the years, carefully looking at system requirements, but there would still be the random turd. It didn’t matter, I was out 50 bucks. Despite this, _I never pirated software_. Like many of the jerkish moral assholes in this thread, I felt like I was above it, I didn’t want to steal. Ironically, what turned me around was this year’s season of Project Runway. My girlfriend and I have never had a TV, and she used to watch the show at her mom’s house. We moved away and no longer have a house we can TV-crash. So… like a good boyfriend I hit the internet. Within _minutes_ I had the current episodes. I was hooked. There is so much available with such ease in one place with one teensy little program that I feel like a fool to _not_ use it. Morals be damned, it is an overwhelming drug and I’m addicted. This is contrary to every other aspect of my being. If a store doesn’t ring up an item I insist the cashier charge me for it. I’ve never stolen anything in the physical world. I can’t morally justify my piracy: When presented with the opportunity to take every digital thing I ever wanted for free I buckled and stole the holy living shit out of it. If the OP’s question is sincere and not just recreational outrage, than I would like to offer this perspective: Piracy exists because it is incredibly easy and there is nothing that rivals it. It is so similar to other aspects of the internet (type in a search, get the result) that it doesn’t even _feel_ like stealing. In addition, the return is most often a product superior to what one can pay for. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/197 "2008-11-27T01:08:41Z")
Because [they](http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/record-labels-sued-in-america-for-cd-price-fixing-697519.html) [stole](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/29/labels_charged_with_pricefixing_again/) from [us](http://blogcritics.org/archives/2002/09/30/123242.php#20020930123242). ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/198 "2008-11-27T02:41:50Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > This kind of thing is pretty common with anime. Many fansub groups will cease distributing a show if it gets licensed for the US, or at the very least (if the show is long and ongoing) remove torrents of early episodes. There’s also a good-sized body of older shows that either never were picked up state-side, or were and are no longer available. I’m not about to jump down someone’s throat for downloading something that isn’t available in their native region. I had forgotten about Anime, that is definately something I’ll try before I buy (normally 2 episodes) but if I enjoy it I’ll just wait till ADV releases it legitimately unless it’s unlikely to be released (Rosario + Vampire I’m looking at you). Hell try before I buy got them sales of 2 seasons worth of Bleach that I otherwise wouldn’t have looked at. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/199 "2008-11-27T17:17:15Z")
OMG GUYS WHY CANT YOU REALIZE PIRATING IS EXACTLY LIKE SHOOTING BABIES IN THE FACE!!! Seriously you people are fucking ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948/200 "2008-11-27T17:26:53Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > OMG GUYS WHY CANT YOU REALIZE PIRATING IS EXACTLY LIKE SHOOTING BABIES IN THE FACE!!! > > Seriously you people are fucking ridiculous. Bullshit. I’ve done both and they are not at all similar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-wants-to-defend-pirating-content-movies-music-books-software-whatever/473948.md?page=11)